Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Time to STOP

Wormerine pretty much nailed it on the head.

I would add though, I can see a potential for a good open world RPG, but it has yet to be created.
I really enjoyed Skyrim, but yes, it did become very, very repetitive.
My GF and I have played DOS1 and DOS2 multiple times and loved it. However, BG3 is set to be head and shoulders above those. Not only due to the quality increases of the game itself, but moving to 5e rules without artificial difficulty raising like in the DOS games really makes it more immersive.
We've played a few other titles, but aside from BG3 EA, the most fun we've had, surprisingly, was playing Red Dead Online (on Stadia).

Having the open world, riding around together hunting for animals or treasure, occasionally getting accosted by evil bandits (griefers) and running through the story at our leisure was amazing.

If there was a game like that, be it MMO or just multiplayer, but in a fantasy setting, with a bit more character building RPG goodness, it would be an absolute winner in my books. But that doesn't mean I want Larian to stop making BG3 type turn based games, EVER.

A massive, in-depth open world COULD improve exploration. But it shouldn't come at the cost of everything Larian has been building in their age of the CRPG renaissance. There's an indie game whose name is escaping me that is in development and has open world exploration, but switches to turn-based when combat begins. I think that could work here. It makes me wonder, though, why I am so fond of vast open worlds and free exploration. Maybe I just have fond memories of Bethesda and Obsidian games. But I do think there is something really cool about exploring a seemingly vast landscape dense with mystery and hidden features at your own leisure. At the same time, I think it would involve sacrificing everything that made DOS, DOS2, and BG3 what they are now. I know I hate the theme park effect and that a true open world could help with it. I don't think any of that qualifies as making the game more normal or legitimate though. In light of the roles of spells and abilities influencing how we traverse the world, I would much prefer something Morrowind-like in exploration rather than Skyrim-like.

Honestly, exploration is one of the weakest points for me in this game. I would keep EVERYTHING as is, including turn-based combat, but place our characters in a large open-world with hidden dungeons that require solving puzzles or perception checks. I honestly think this would be in line with what people imagine the world around them to be in tabletop.

You could also divide the map in smaller areas between which you "travel". Exploration in BG1 was exactly what you describe without the things that may be boring in open world (filler content in exemple).

I like the seamless nature of the current world and open worlds though. Having a bunch of transitions is a little choppy to me, but I understand why someone might like that. I wouldn't mind a bigger world that is still seamless which has a bit of somewhat less deep content to fill it. A bandit camp here, an village taken over by the Absolute Cult there. I'm reminded of the Ancestral Tombs in Morrowind, which were scattered all over the map but were essentially one to two room places to raid for a bit of loot.

I know I can't be the only one to feel something strange when a vast world with diverse geography opens up before you and you can go anywhere you want. I think that's immersive as fuck. Just walk in a direction, and there's world, and stuff, and if you keep walking, more world, more stuff. The principle here is a sort of freedom of movement and exploration at a massive scale. Again, I'd keep everything else, but I'd revamp exploration and traversal.

That or keep the size of this map, but remove some of the bigger setpieces and scatter them over several equally sized maps.
That way they could have the Druid grove on one map, the goblin camp on another and, the swamp on a third.
Then fill in the setpieces that got removed with smaller encounters and maybe a small village, a farmstead, a small bandit camp etc... Would give the game a feeling of a living world not just an amusement park.

I imagine Larians writers taking a crack at rebooting the Lord of the Rings.
-You have to get the ring to mordor!
-What, that place on the other side of the river?
-Yes!
-Ohh man, that's like a 10 minute walk.

I can't quite agree - I think current game's structure has issues, but exploration in itself is pretty good.

There is a lot of interesting stuff to find, so exploration is fun in that regard - there is something to find behind almost every corner. There is also a big variety of content, and a lot of cool stuff isn't screaing for players attention - so players need to pay attention, and can find interesting stuff for themselves. That is very good. Larian also has always managed to utilised character's skill set into exploration - less so in BG3 due to working with existing ruleset, but there are still many cool interactions one can find.

Really, the main issue I have with maps is "context" - they don't sell me on the fantasy of the place we are exploring. Creating bigger maps with "travel space" inbetween could address this issue, but I don't think it would be a good solution - unlike a third person action game, moving around BG3 isn't fun in itself. I don't mind riding waiting for something to catch my attention in Red Dead Redemption2 or Elden Ring, but that wouldn't work in BG3. Also with top down view, we can't look toward horizon, pick a landmark, and navigate toward it.


That's what has been done by most is not all other topdown game, and for a good reason, not just technical limitation. We get tightly designed "interesting" areas and abstracted travel inbetween, giving us both sense of adventure and a better idea of a land we are travelling through. Theoretially one could stitch, lets say Baldur's Gate1 maps into one, but I don't think it would work for the reasons I mentioned above - with very limited view players would get lost and get frustrated. Larian avoided this problem by making their "zones" very small, distinct and tightly put together, but that brings us to the problem that the game's world feels like a minature game board, rather than a believable place.

They could have worked around the issue, by picking a setting appropriate for such small scale map - alas. Larian shoved multiple towns, inns, forest, swamp and more into one tightly packed map.

I also don't know if it is just me, but I always found Larian's camera to be very disorienting. I don't have this issue anymore, as I know available BG3 maps rather well, but in D:OS1&2 and in my early BG3 playthroughs I would constantly get turned around by accident. I always prefered when top down games stuck to isometric, locked camera view - easier to navigate and not as tedious.

Let me clarify--I wouldn't change anything for BG3 NOW. I'm more talking about a hypothetical future game. I like BG3. I also like open worlds. So I'm more spitballing on what my ideal situation would be down the line. I do agree that there's a lot to uncover in BG3, and that context needs improvement. But maybe it's that we've played it so many times, it just seems a bit small.

I have nothing against tabletop games, in fact, I wish more young people (all ages for that matter) would play these TT games, its a way to socialize, something our society sorely lacks these days!

I have nothing against Larian making BG3, but lets face it, Larian is known only for making isometric turn based RPG's and I believe that the future is in open world action/adventure RPG's . BG3 can be classified as action/adventure also, but its slow and its mechanics are stifling!

All I'm suggestion is that after BG3 (sometime next year when the console ports are released aka BG3 The Definitive Addition), Swen takes a look around and maybe just maybe says, lets do an open world RPG with our own IP! How great would that be?!

Also, its not me that "doesn't like turn based games" I played DOS 1 and 2, Solasta etc...its just that I had a ton, a TON, more fun playing games like The WItcher 3, Cyberpunk 2077, Skyrim, Oblivion, FAllout 3/4, MAssEffect Legendary Edition, Red Dead Redemption (and many more). All these games had a story, they had choices to make (yes, some more than others and some more consequential than others) but they were all great fun to play!

I'm sure that Larian is already plotting what their next game might be. But I will say that that might also be a big risk b/c Larian is not necessarily know for having good/balanced characters/weapons (DOS II as an example), the WotC rule set gave them that so all they had to do was translate to bits and bytes. With their own IP, they will have to do all the heavy lifting of making the game "balanced" which can be difficult.

But regardless, they will have to decide what the next game is going to be, BG3 will be done, is there another WotC game they can port or perhaps use another companies IP to port as a computer game, I don't know, I'm not that versed in the business.

But I do know, Larian wants to make money, who doesn't.

Find your post interesting but just want to say that Larian made other games before DOS.

What a troll thread indeed. I am not interested in DOS 1 and 2.

BG1 and BG2 were like like this that you play /turn and other good games example Solasta, Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 and Pathfinder games 1 and 2.

If you want to play action games and totally disable turn based game and disable DND 5 then please play other games:
What other games to play then BG3

This is Forgotten Realms and DND5 game and this is not DOS3 or some Action game where DND 5 is removed. Stop wishing for BG3 as Action game and that DND 5 elements will be removed. That said you can discuss other games (I gave link to discuss in that thread) then BG3 and play also other games then BG3 and you can even play other action games feel free to do that as you may wish.

Oh and do not say I hate all action games you can read my posts in the link!
That said I do want that BG3 is tabletop game like DND 5 and very close (ok modern graphics and movie effects) to BG1 and BG2 enough said.

"Find your post interesting but just want to say that Larian made other games before DOS."

That's is true and I believe that they were NOT isometric, more of the open world type (again this was like 25 years ago) but it was with DOS (a turn based game) that they hit the jackpot, so they stuck with what worked/s for them.

Dude, chill out! LOL, I'm not advocating changing BG3 from what it currently is (its too late anyway), just suggesting that Larian explore other options to game development for the "next" game that we know they will develop.

In the link I gave you please see my previous post in this thread I did mention even 5 upcoming MMO:S if you go to that discusion 4th page my current last post in that thread. You will get upcoming MMO:S. BG3 support solo play or up to maximum 4 players, but it will not become a MMO. There is an Dungeons Dragons MMO with Unreal 5 graphics made in USA upcoming game in far future unknown released date perhaps between 2025-2028 well so even a DND MMO will come eventually. That said BG3 is not going to be full MMO even though you can play it up to maximum 4 players cooperative.

While “action adventure” is probably the vaguest genre in gaming, and yet no it can’t.

Go convince Ubisoft/Rockstar/CDPR to do something else for a change, and maybe than Larian will have a reason to fill the void. As it is they would be entering into an oversaturated market, dominated mostly by major publishers. Sounds like a suicide. Doing an open world action game would have many first-times for Larian. Gaming would only be poorer for it.

Ok here is what you do;

1. Create a business plan and an outline of the game you want to create
2. Line up some investors
3. Approach WOTC and negotiate rights to the D&D License.
4. Approach Epic Games and get a license for the Unreal Engine, most recent version (which looks amazing)
5. Hire Developers and writers and someone for HR (Don't poach from Larian)
6. Find a Publisher (ask Larian)
7. Make Game
8. Promote Game
9. release and sell game
10. Profit.

It's SO easy!

Corection:

10.
11. Profit.

You missed one step.

haha, my bad!

Alright, forgetting mechanics and the hated theme park effect...
I CANNOT be the only one that wishes the world was a bit bigger? Like maybe some winding roads and paths and terrain between areas hat stretch a bit longer and have the odd combat encounter with wildlife?

I developed a migraine condition in my early twenties.

Turn based games are what I can safely play for long hours... unlike middle earth, shadow of war which melts me in 5 minutes. So, I appreciate it being in a modern game

Well, I think we are done here, its going to be interesting to see what Larian announces as their next game, probably late next year or early 2025 (all depends as to when they release the console version of this game)