Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Suggestion - Sneak Attack improvement

A defining element of the Rogue class, at least in terms of combat, is the Sneak Attack. In 5E, this sneak attack can be used once per turn against an eligible target. Sneak attack damage can be applied to any 1 attack that lands that turn, whether that attack comes from an action (typically main hand attack) or a bonus action (typically off hand attack).

In BG3, Rogues can only sneak attack on an action. This gives them much less opportunity to land a sneak attack and thus limits their combat effectiveness. GWM fighters, frenzied barbarians (which have no exhaustion penalty in BG3), Smiting Paladins all substantially out damage a rogue. Giving rogues the ability to apply sneak to offhand attacks (again still 1 sneak attack /turn), would help bridge the gap a little bit and make them more viable in BG3.

In terms of how this could be implemented, a toggle to 'attempt sneak attack' is one option. When toggled on, the next attack that lands that meets the criteria has sneak attack damage applied. Any further attacks that turn would not be eligible. If it is easier, adding bonus action based sneak attack 'class action' could work too. The existing sneak attack action and this new 'bonus action sneak attack' action would be disabled for the turn if the other landed already that turn.

I agree that sneak attack needs to be improved, and with the new reaction system implemented with patch 9 it feels as though we now have the core elements of a mechanic that could be used to achieve this.

This has been discussed on this forum before, most recently, I think, in this thread.

Thanks for the thread. Interesting there is a mod out to try and correct/improve - will have to check that out.

Whilst I agree with the principle in general, there is a specific edge case that does go in favor of the Rogue with the current system. If you are Hastened (by Potion of Speed or the Level 3 spell) and have 2 actions per turn, the current implementation allows you to make a ranged AND melee sneak attack in the same turn as long as you can get Advantage on both; for example by Sneaking using both Bonus Actions, or attacking a Threatened target from range then closing, Faerie Fire etc.

But closer on topic, yes it would definitely be preferable now they have a better code framework in place to look at the system again. They could give the Rogue a sneak attack "charge" per turn instead of sorcery points and a toggle the same as the Metamagic mechanic.

Sorry to say that is just wrong and it's got nothing to do with it. There is no edge case for the current system it just bad no way around it. You can do the same thing if the system works like smite. Smite has both systems active and passive as it should be.

I had always assumed the bonus action attack, after using a ranged weapon, was a bug. Technically, you'd get this after attacking with a light weapon in the main hand. But, who knows, maybe it's working as intended.

Sorry to say but that is 100% how it works in-game right now, is relevant to the question of comparative class DPS as a result, and is an edge case for the current system. You not liking it does not change those things, those things are facts. If you want to have a discussion that is fine, but responding with knee-jerk nonsense that doesn't add anything to the debate is neither productive nor helpful.

You are confusing the fact that the game has no charges for sneak attack so it's not limited to once per turn, yet. that got nothing to do with active system.
they can leave that in for passive system as well. If it was intended but we all know it's not. It was already reported as a bug. So in turn passive system is better.

Some of us know this will never get into full game, i guess you are hoping it will ? (it's the same thing, if they keep the current warlock oversight and how they can get charisma mod on all extra damage sources for a EB... that will get fixed. I geuss we can call that edge case as well?).

If they made the system passive sneak attack could be done on all attacks not just on two... Just shows you how broken ass the oversight is.

Even if this oversight would somehow to get into final version,
The passive system with charges once per turn would still be better because you could get the same damage by using sneak attack on reaction. You wouldn't have to waste haste potion to get it.

The balance is that you actually need some player know how to pull it off effectively and you have to be in melee range to do it when you have no control over it.

Not sure whether you’re not understanding Elessaria’s point, Lastman, or I’m not. But there really doesn’t seem to be any cause for argument here.

The OP said that the rogue is disadvantaged in BG3 compared to 5e due to the fact they can only sneak attack with their main attack. Elessaria agreed in general, but pointed out that there is actually one situation in which they’re advantaged compared to 5e in that if they have two actions they can feasibly get a ranged and melee sneak attack in one turn, which they couldn’t per 5e RAW. Elessaria didn’t say this was a good thing, and in fact agreed that it would be better to revisit sneak attack mechanics, just noted it as a matter of fact about the way sneak attack is currently implemented.

Well again max damage per Round is the same so.


5e: you can get 2 sneak attacks per round 1 needs to be melee due to Attack of opportunity / reaction limits of skills like BattleMasters Commander's Strike(the whole point of this skill in 5e is to get your rogues second round sneak attack off) and is balanced by reaction limits.
Bg 3: (bug/oversight) you can make 2 sneak attack per round again 1 needs to be melee and the other needs to be ranged due to the way active skill work. The max damage per round is the same in both cases.



Not only the damage is the same. But active skill has all sorts of drawbacks and the second attack is not balanced in any meaningfully way.
It's just a one, two click thing. WHere in 5e it is not that simple and it feels way more rewarding when you do it though reactions.

As we know by now you can TRY to sneak attack on all finesse weapon attacks in 5e as long as you didn't sneak attack already and you do not have to use haste to do it.

You seem to be doing an awful lot of guessing. I tend to work with what's actually in front of me.

We are comparing systems, again even if for some weird reason this bug would make it into final version of the game it would still be way worse and in no shape or form good.
Let alone better if compared to properly implemented 5e sneak attack.

To me it feels like haste exploit at best, all in all more like an oversight/bug if you will. Same thing as how wizzards could learn all spells and they needed 2 years to fix that. So i would say just a haste gimmick we could make a full thread about those alone.

The biggest shame with all of this would be that they showed they can do it. Smite is a prfect example! IF i would have to guess i would say everyone can see how great it is. Be it if you use it as a passive or if you use "ask" pop up option. This whole thing isn't limited to sneak attack. Same thing should be done for all weapon attacks that work in similar way. Example, Colossus Slayer just one of many. All this systems effects how crit fishing builds work and other combinations or rules...


But maybe that just me. God knows people care more about "porn cutsceens" and pronouns than stuff like this.