Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback D&D Alignment dialog options

ok this post is going to be a simple post by me.

my question firstly to us baldur's gate 3 players is this

how many of you would like for Larian to impliment Additonal unique dialog choices on top of what they have already put into the game.

now your all probably wonder what i mean when i say alignment dialog choices.

now anyone that has played the tabletop games should know what i mean exactly by alignments. when it comes to additional dialog choices.

but i will expand on it.

basically alignments are exactly as youd expect. i.e

Neutral:
(True) neutral
Chaotic neutral
Neutral evil



Lawful:
Lawful good
Lawful evil

Evil:
Lawful evil
Chaotic evil

so my question is to everyone. would you like to see these options as additional choices when choosing what you will say in dialog besides all of the other options that are already in the game. and if so.. how would you do it.

Suggestions and positive comments welcomed.

please be civil and polite. thank you.

I would not do this. We need to re-gain our moral sensibilities in regard to what is a good or evil action. How many players didn't realize they were evil by ambushing a creature that was not currently attacking them and paid the price by becoming Oathbreakers?

ok i can somewhat see your view to a degree.

and if it were implimented then it could also be an additional choice in character creation that people choose.. that way everyone knows what their character is alignment wise.

and you only become an oathbreaker if you play as a paladin or cleric so i will politely and nicely say this. the thing you say about becoming an oathbreaker is kind of mute. as what you said only applies to them.

now obviously if you choose to play as a cleric oathbreaker or paladin oathbreaker. then yes it is simple just dont choose any of the options i listed. but and i say this again

the alignments are a huge part of D&D. to not include them does not in any way or form make sense just because of those that choose to play oath takers etc.

not only that. but i also like the idea of that if you start off as say lawful good but then you do unlawful crimes or you kill then your characters alignment changes fluidly

same with all the other races when it comes to alignments... if your good to begin with but then commit crimes or turn someone against another or you kill someone. then at least in the game it would make it interesting for the other classes and races..

same goes with those with deities (Excluding oathtaker classes) im talking purely for the other races.. maybe if your a drow and your deity is lolth sworn. maybe if you do good choices then perhaps through doing good things. your character whilst yes falling out of favor with lolth. perhaps at that point could worship selderine or however she is annonanced as. and again with said alignment options and all the different races and classes and backgrounds etc. having alignment options as an extra choice on top of those already in the game would only add more ways to play as your character and develope it.

as i said. i am very sure larian could impliment an alignment system that would make everyone happy or at least hopefully make players happy. how i dont know. im no developer at the end of the day.

im just a game player like everyone else in these forums.. that really really likes D&D editions i.e 1e 2e 3e 4e 5e.

and rpg game choices to me are a very very huge big reason why i play rpg games such as baldurs gate 3 and other rpg games where you make choices.

and i just would like as many diverse and unique dialog choices/options for our characters as possible. yes i know they already have alot in the game that make the outcomes different etc. but imo if an alignment choice diaglog option were done/added to the game it would make it even more awesome and add yet more unique ways to be your character when doing dialog choices in the game.

also just to help give some an idea of what alignments in the game if they get implimented.

what they are use for and how they work

here is a link explaining them. this way everyone whom looks at this thread post gets a better idea of why i want it in the game. again for those that choose to play cleric oathtakers and paladin oathtakers. you dont have to choose in the game to do bad things and if you do choose an evil choice. thats because you chose too not because of your alignment doing it.

https://mykindofmeeple.com/dungeons-dragons-alignments-with-examples/

No... Decisions are too subjective sometimes and it can irk players for years.

For example, it's an evil decision in dragon age origins to not risk the lives of an entire town and kill one woman instead. As we've been made to understand, the raids on the village will only get worse if the issue is not addressed.

Now, to not kill this woman (whose fault this all is anyway), we need to leave the town unprotected for multiple nights. This is by all means irrational and signing off on murder. The entire town will die by all logic and narrative sense.

Except, it doesn't. You have unlimited time to seek alternative help.

If I see decisions pigeonholed and divided this badly into good and evil again, I will really take too much psychic damage and unlock berserker rage. It doesn't help that some "evil" choices so far really are of the "stupid evil" type. I don't have the confidence that Larian can pull this off. Just give everyone all choices.

Hi Rexie. If you’re interested in some of the discussion that’s been had on this forum about alignments previously, you could take a look at, eg, https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=828433.

My own view remains that I find the alignment framework useful in getting a hold of who my character is and how they would act. And that I think it is a useful lens for Larian to apply to ensure their plots and dialogues give options to roleplay different alignments. But that I am happy that BG3 doesn’t make explicit use of alignment, which I understand is in line with the trend in D&D.

In contrast, I initially enjoyed the approach in Pathfinder: Kingmaker, in which the game played back my character’s changing alignment, but in the end found it a constraint on my roleplay. Particularly as the same actions or dialogue choices can fit multiple alignments depending on intention, background knowledge, interpretation of context, and so on. I’m all for BG3 giving us more opportunity to express within the game why we are acting as we are, but I don’t think it’s feasible to do this in a way that would remove all ambiguity as to what alignment fitted a choice, and like Silver/ suspect I’d just end up frustrated and annoyed when I disagreed with the assessment made by the game.

I'm generallt in favor of alignment as a thing that exists to help guide character creation. Especially for less experienced players in both video games and tabletop, it can be nice to have alignment to fall back on as a sort of 'when in doubt' option. That being said I think this would be a bad idea to implement in BG3 for two reasons.

The first is that I don't think BG3 really needs hard alignment in a story sense. I don't think that having alignment would improve the delivery of the story or its themes. I will insist that Wrath of the Righteous needed alignment because the whole point of the game is about becoming an extra-planar being, something that's more and less than human, and thus is more primal, more elemental, more ruled by these otherworldly ideals.

The second, bigger reason is that I don't for a moment think Larian's writers could actually do it well. I don't think they could present those choices with the nuance and consideration such a thing would require. Even WotR fumbled the ball at several points and I think their writing is overall superior. Larian demonstrably doesn't seem to prioritize giving our player characters nuance in their choices.

Alignement is a contentious topic, some loves it descriptive, some loves it prescriptive, some loves it implicit, some loves it explicit, some hates it...
I myself like what Larian did, there isn't an alignement so characters can avoid being overdone clichés. Just look at discussions about the companions, it is way more fun to have characters who aren't restricted to a tight morality grid!

yes i can understand what you silver and red are saying.

but ok for example drow specially those of lolth worshippers, most tend to be evil aligned i.e do things for greed. etc. the only drow i can think of that rebelled against the norm was drizz't i believe, it has been years since i read legacy of the drow collection book the forgotten realms book and the book to do with drizz't himself. so far playing as a lolth drow just hasnt felt authantic to me. because they do the same thing more or less as all the other races/player characters. yes sure in the game you can do evil choices. but i just would like choices that are not a clear evil or clear good choice.. i dont know if im good at what im trying to explain.. im to be honest never have been good at explaining stuff all that much.

i would like options in dialog that are not purely evil nor purely good or just gray if you know what i mean. but still choices that would align with all of the diff alignments in d&d. as for larian on if they could pull it off or not. i dont know.. honestly bg3 is the first ive played. i never played dos1 or dos2. i did play bg1 & bg2 back in the day and also bg dark alliance and that other bg game where you character became a vampire spawn by choosing a dialog option..

see thats what i mean.. i would like options that have unique outcomes.. that grant new abilities that are granted through unique dialog choice options. or even through a quest by choosing again a certain choice.. i like versitility and unique ways when it comes to choices..

While I am satisfied with Larian's overall writing, meaningful [good] and choices are extremely difficult to pull off in a morally complex game.

You can have it both ways. Avoid them being present in dialogue whenever the option is dubious. Done. However, the problems don't end here. Either the feature sees little use, it's simplified (good/evil, chaotic/lawful) or the programing effort is immense. As are the options people are locked out of.

I prefer all choices being available all of the time. It's as simple as that for me. But, I understand some people want special rewards for chosing a path.

I'm especially not a fan of it when it goes too far. Because, if you get unique... which is often the /really/ good loot... the game will force you to pick the best alignment for a subclass. This restricts freedom immensely. At least, I feel like it does. I /am/ a fan of optimization. Nothing is forcing my hand, but it does rile me up.

If it grants a spell already easily available like the necromancy of Thay... or it's a new item that now adds light, when used, to your cantrips, which is choseable in the first place. Yeah, okay. As long as the game isn't substantially shortened through the expansion of choices, I don't care. It's difficult to do /well/, though.

Bg3 won't give you horrible consequences like dragon age origins... I believe. It's a risk to take, Larian can do it well... but will they?

How good the calculation was will unfortunately be widely judged by people through "as in hindsight...". Perhaps fairly. Perhaps not.

I would certainly like adding more options ...
It really doesnt matter what mechanic will Larian use in order to include as much options for us as possible ... limiting dialogue choices in this game are my most often repeated criticism.

I think at least one option per Good/Evil/Neutral should be the very basic ...
Then adding some nuances to differ between Chaos/Lawfull/Neutral would be appreciated ...

And even tho i dont really like Alignments as a construct ...
I think there should be optional [Alignment] tags for new players.

Paladin was just a really good example of how people flounder when it comes to interpreting their own actions. The fact is 5E has backed away from alignments in general and de-emphasized them.
But this is all moot, we have had these discussions before on the board. The-red-Queen nailed it by pointing that out.

Now reputation DOES make more sense to me. It also wouldn't be that hard to implement. If you steal, attack sentient creatures without provocation, lie, cheat and murder people for their gear and gold that should reflect in a repution. if the system is already basically there with the Oathbreaker thing why not get that in place.

My problem is the EXPECTATION that X alignment MUST have Y reputation which is something the original games did and it was a crap system that made zero sense.

I like the ideas you put into your post ragnarok, now see if that optional alignment tag would be a good alternative. i would be fine with that and i dont see why other people also wouldnt be ok with it either. that actually seems like a good compromise.

i also would not have a problem if all races had as you pointed out a reputation attached to actions, if they larian could tweak what they did for the oathbreaker side of things and somehow make it work for all the other races in the game/classes. again i would be absolutely happy with that. as i say if there was a tangible outcome for either breaking whichever deity one has or keeping to that deities ways/beliefs. id like that honestly.

My opinion was stated on the subject of race/species and related problems. Exclusively. I think rather clearly, too. I don't engage with purposeful bad faith claims.

I'm sorry, I don't know why the above was posted here. I was replying to another thread entirely

when i say unique items i mean as in not op items. but items/abilities that maybe were associated with certin deity ruins. or maybe from reading other books perhaps we get a new ability i.e spells kind of like what they did with necromancy of thay. or another thing they could do is award us +1 feat point to spend for reading x amounts of books. etc etc.. im just brain storming how/what they could do that would not be op, and that would make sense as well.

Oh yeah, I would 100% be for that. Violate your deities ethos? Boom! rep loss. Run around being a murderhobo? Boom, no good-aligned groups wants to trade with you or even speak with you. The Hag/zhentarim wouldn't care obviously.

But on Alignment tags I am not a fan of them. That would like me tattooing Neutral Evil on my forehead. Breaks immersion and is odd that you would just know that unless you could detect evil.

Considering the lines are 100% voice acted and full release is soon no they will not be adding more choices for you to pick in dialogue.