Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Help Tips & Tricks An Outline for how to play evil in Bg3

I posted this on reddit about a week ago and it got a lot of attention. I think people get caught up in the Druid Grove/Goblin drama and it feels not very satisfying when the only option *seems* to be join Goblins or Join Grove with some permutations.


First ignore the Goblins and the Druids/Tieflings* - they are beneath you - instead head into the Underdark and claim power and resources for yourself.

1. Go to the Kuo-Toa and undercut that redcap weakling - then demand they worship you and "build you an army"

2. Help Glut supplant Spaw in return for power and influence. Spaw is weak anyway.

3. Give the noblestock to Baelen and demand recompense and discounts for your efforts.

4. Defeat the Drow wizards and find out about the adamantine forge - you will possess this power for your own ends.

5. Loot the arcane tower - learn of its guardians passcodes and take over the towers defenses. You now own your own fortress in the Underdark. Dig up De Hursts dead dog and take its collar so you can summon free steak and then eat it in her bed. Leave stains. Seems like this would be a great place to put your Kuo-Toa army (hint hint Larian ;D)

6. Work out a trade agreement with the hag - discounts on her incredible potions in exchange for gold.

7. Head to the Grymforge - when questioned push the Duegar off the boat and then slaughter the crew. Loot the boat.

8. When that Duegar female tries to extort you tell her to kiss your ass. Let her know you are happy to throw down anytime.

9. Abuse “Stickshit” - and mock him openly. Find out about the Shadow-curse lands from your new "friend" the drunk blowhard Duegar.

10. Oh don’t forget to steal that deep gnomes boots and her belongings in the Myconid colony.

11. Abuse the animals to get the rubble cleared.

12. Encourage Nere to kill all the slaves and Sergeant Thrinn and her ilk - then let him in on what is going on with the Tadpoles and the Absolute. He is shocked by what you tell him. He can give you a lot of information on who is in charge at moonrise. He tells you to go talk to Minthara who can help get you there...

And that’s when you go see the goblins…as a conqueror with your own agenda


*Obviously there is stuff you can do on the surface before heading into the Underdark, being cognizant of your fledgling position. Such as:


Additionally I would encourage people to create 4 custom characters and ditch all the pre-mades. Trust me, you will feel so free and in control. See below for instructions on how to do that from Wolfheart. Love that guy.



To Evil!

I didnt know you can get discount on potions.
Damn ... still there are undiscovered things. :3

You can get a discount on buying and better prices on selling by giving vendors gold. Its expensive though, about 1,200 Gold or so to get their approval up to 100%. In the case of Ethel its very much worth it because she makes the best potions in EA and has 3 x Elixir's of Hill Giant Strength per long rest.

Elixirs of Hill Giant Strength now last until long rest. This is HUGE. I now build characters around the idea of just popping one after every long rest.

Larian should take some notes. The standard evil route is all about being someone's minion. That's. Well. A choice. It's a shame it's the only one.

I'd like the type of evil where you can choose to torture the goblin who tried to force you into torturing a prisoner for information. Malicious compliance of a good/neutral character... or a step towards darkness?

A good decision for someone self absorbed, too. You think "YOU can order ME?" type of characters. Why only scare the goblin through a bluff? Actions speak louder than words...

Exactly - in a proper Lawful to Neutral Evil playthrough you would refuse to be anyone's lackey. You may agree to take on a contract or job but only if the reward is proportional to the risk and it aligns with your own goals.

In a Chaotic Evil playthrough you would refuse to align with weaklings like the Druids or Tieflings on principle. You would also not have any reason to help the Goblins or align with Minthara - until you had spoken with Nere anyway. Leaving the situation as-is makes more sense as it keeps both factions occupied and allows you to exploit them.

Thankfully the game does allow you to do that and even provides a path for you to follow your own agenda. It still needs some shoring up though.

We get an early encounter that shows we have power over people through the tadpole. So...

I think a good story hook could be the promise of mastering that power, and if we wish, rising through the ranks. As a minimum, I mean. Larian would just have to add two conversation and the ability to ask questions on each (add deception checks or searching their mind since you potentially distrust them. Bonus points!).

Such a solution is just very low effort, but it improves the story massively.

Of course, potential magic items, gold or an artefact like the robbed Idol of sylvanus would strenghten it further. A new route to moonrise towers would make it an actual valid path. We could get a tadpole power out of it.

However, I would be satisfied with just adding the dialogue if Larian doesn't want to spend resources on it. I understand we can't have every story path highly developed. The story does /need/ fixing, however. The writing feels so incomplete.

That's a cool outline, but my problem with it is that fundamentally it relies on meta knowledge. Why would the characters go into the underdark unprompted? Especially if you go down via the spider's lair, there's nothing suggesting you'll find a way back up. Nothing even suggests that there's anything of note down there. Why would there be? It's a random hole in an underground cavern that actually has several other random holes in it. Say what you want about the reliability of the leads we have on the surface, at least they're in relatively close proximity for investigation. The Underdark is supposed to be HUGE. Even if you did think you could find stuff out down there, there's no reason to think you're not just falling into the equivalent of a massive, unpopulated prairie.

This is a big issue I have with BG3. People talk about all the options the game gives, but most of them only exist if you metagame and already know about them.

There is the option of robbing the Zhentarim of the iron flask and using the elevator your character doesn't know goes to the underdark.

I am not in agreement that it relies on meta knowledge inherently, or to put it another way an outline is impossible without meta knowledge. So the point is irrelevant. Don't conflate the outline with the way the game is played or the clues that would lead an intelligent, power-hungry player into the Underdark - a place known to be full of powerful and dangerous creatures, but also fabulous wealth and resources.

As for getting out, are we not aware of the jump points that allow us to instantly teleport to previous locations? Are you planning to argue that "we don't know if they would work or not?"

Additionally there are personality subtypes that emphasize high risk/reward behaviors and those subtypes tend to fall into sociopathy. Arrogance goes hand in hand with a lust for power, and while some caution and knowledge gathering would be warranted - a certain amount of danger would not prevent risky actions. You do realize we all just killed a massive spider creature after all? We are clearly a cut above the mere peasantry.

I would invite you to consider that you are not used to roleplaying evil, arrogance or power-hungry individuals and so that is not a skin you are comfortable in or familiar with. The "good" mentality is a community focused one, and tends to be more risk-averse when presented with unsanctioned paths/behaviors. They tend to be more comfortable with Risk when its sanctioned by good authority figures and presented within the ur-narrative that portrays them as 'heroic'.

I actually had forgotten about the teleportation sigils. With those in play the risk is severely diminished. I'm still not convinced that there's really much in-world to suggest the hole actually leads to the underdark/is worth giving consideration to, but with the jump points, there's almost no reason not to investigate if you have a suspicion, that's fair. (as an aside, I think Larian should actually provide MORE explanation about those. They're already in-universe things, Larian should go the extra mile to really embed them as part of the setting)

I absolutely know that I'm not used to roleplaying evil, I'll freely admit that, it's not a thing I enjoy. My feeling though was that there is a different between being arrogant, killing a giant spider and just jumping down a random hole that could lead potentially nowhere. It would be the equivalent of parachuting out of a plane over something like mediaval Europe. You'll have no idea where you've ended up and the odds are good that you'll be nowhere useful, while you have a ticking clock in your head. But like I said, the jump points make the risks of that moot.

Watch The Sopranos - one of the reasons that it is considered some of the best television that has ever existed is because it does such an incredible job of portraying sociopathic criminality as it pertains to human evil. That show IS a study in what evil looks like.

it also 100% paved the way for shows like Breaking Bad, Boardwalk Empire, Mad Men, and the Wire - with Anti hero protagonists. Nobody thought you could get away with that before The Sopranos.

Btw, those are also excellent Templates for evil.

High risk, high reward behavior, purely selfish motivations, emotional manipulation, sentimentality that extends to babies and pets that people conflate with actual compassion, aggression confused for cooperation. Talk therapy used as a furtherance of criminal enterprise, and insatiable lust for money, power, and carnal pleasures (food and sex) that can never be satisfied. Its fucking brilliant. That is your template - as soon as I get the body type I am making Tavy Soprano and going full mafioso.

lol.

"You woke up this morning
Got yourself a gun
Your mama always said you'd be the chosen one
She said, you're one in a million
You got to burn to shine
But you were born under a bad sign
With a blue moon in your eyes
When you woke up this morning
All that love had gone
Your papa never told you
About right and wrong
But you're, but you're looking good, baby
I believe that you're feeling fine, shame about it
Born under a bad sign
With a blue moon in your eyes
You woke up this morning
The world turned upside down
Lord above, thing's ain't been the same
Since the Blues walked into town
But you're, but you're one in a million
'Cause you've got that shotgun shine, shame about it
Born under a bad sign
With a blue moon in your eyes, yea
Woke up this morning
You got yourself a gun
Got yourself a gun
Got yourself a gun"

- Alabama 3

I tend to head down to the Underdark early with drow or deep gnome characters that I have decided are from there. It makes sense that it’s their comfort zone (as uncomfortable as it is) and that they feel more confident of navigating it and finding what they need down there than on the hostile surface. Plus it’s easier to believe that they understand where they’re jumping to.

But I’m with you in finding it a stretch for other characters. I’m not saying it can’t be rationalised, just that it’s trickier. I’ll probably try with my githyanki once I get round to that playthrough, as he’d first go to the Risen Road to find the other gith, so could feasibly come across the Zhent hideout and take the elevator down to the Underdark which seems easier to justify than just leaping into the unknown. Though I do have a couple of chaotic characters who I could see jumping down a random hole just to see what’s down there.

EDIT: For my characters the Netherese teleport runes wouldn’t be any comfort as my head canon is that they only work to jump from one rune to another, and therefore they can only be used when there is a clear path to one rune to enable access to others. So unless my party could be sure that there were more runes down below, they wouldn’t see them as an easy escape route back to the surface. If the game did provide me with an in-universe explanation, as you suggest, and that included making sense of me being able to jump to a rune from the middle of nowhere, then I might revisit this!

I see why you'd find doing that with a Drow or Deep gnome to be more reasonable, but my issue is still that, unless you have a particular backstory, they still don't *really* know what they're jumping into. We don't know where our character was taken from. They could from anywhere. So to me, assuming that an underdark native would be comfortable jumping into any part of the underdark without further information would be like assuming a Russian who lives in one city could comfortably drop to any random other point in the country and find something of use. And it's still super likely that they're jumping into a stretch of nothing where people just don't live.

Sorry to harp on this, it just bothers me.

help yourself to the loot down below before walking out of the druid grove


as long as Nettie doesn't see you put the rune in the block no body even minds you walking out with their most prized weapon and armour ... gotta love a trusting group

I've had one complete run and I will probably repeat most of that path at release.

I've always thought I am playing a character with doubtful morals and not really evil.

Just reading through these options makes me wonder if I am playing a less sinister version of an evil character.

I have saved the Grove and the tieflings (partially because of the beautiful tiefling with a nice voice, partially because goblins are repulsive and the rest are serving a tadpole; and Halsin does seem to be the key to salvation). But then above 50% of the choices of the original poster were made in the Underdark. Why save the gnomes? It is a risky business and that fool got captured twice! Or why not teach that whiny Mariyna what stupid choice she has made? And that naught is for free and that's why I am taking the wand. Her husband is dead anyway. Or make the kua-toa build you an army (getting some Saruman vibes there.)

Food for thought.


Thanks to the OP for gathering most of it at one place.

P.S. The only thing I would disagree are the custom characters. I did not have a problem make Shadowheart, Astarion and Gale all love me by the end of EA.

I have to ask, what are the kua-toa and where are they? I've explored the underdark in two playthroughs and never seen them.

They’re very easy to miss, as you need to jump down some rocks and climb down a crag to get to their cove. It’s not far from the entrance to the Arcane Tower courtyard: if you keep that to your right and start heading along the path towards the jump up to Ethel’s lair you should come across the right place. There are some torchstalks and a skeleton with a helm that gives a bonus to wisdom saving throws near where you need to climb down.

The beauty of a custom character is that we can give them a particular back story that makes sense of it . Of course, it’s possible that something in the full campaign will come along that contradicts it and means it needs to be tweaked, but I still like to have a good idea of who I think my character was before they were kidnapped. And I’m not above a bit of meta-gaming to create a character who I think will be able to do something different and interesting once I know the outline of the story and what my options are!

Exactly!! You get it! It is a disgust with weakness and there are logical reasons behind it. Mayrina - in her inability to let go and grieve her loss plus her ignorance - gets her brothers killed and potentially causes another Hag to be born into the world - since eating babies is how Green hags reproduce.

"Hags propagate by snatching and devouring human infants. After stealing a baby from its cradle or its mother's womb, the hag consumes the poor child. A week later, the hag gives birth to a daughter who looks human until her thirteenth birthday, whereupon the child transforms into the spitting image of her hag mother."

And turning Conner into a Zombie just makes the problem worse - because now she needs a true res to fix him.

Barcus Root is a fool who runs off to "save" his friend Wuldren alone. You later find out the so essentially they are terrorists.

Evil isn't easy for a lot of people to play, you have to really consider mindset and motivations...but without evil, life is boring.