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So, I just saw this post on reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGat..._little_psa_on_witch_bolt_functionality/Basically, it seems like it's possible to spend an action point to recast Witch Bolt when it would obviously fail (and does) because the target is outside of bound. However, this isn't conveyed by the UI, at all. The player should be warned that the action will fail because the target is too far. Ideally, the player shouldn't even be able to spend that action at all. After all, the game already prevents players from attacking (weapon or spell) a target if the later can't be reached while displaying a "Target is too far!" in red. This seems to be an issue with Witch Bolt, I don't know if other spells are concerned by that.
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Valid, but I'm still more concerned about "why should I spend a spell slot to deal 1d12 damage, when a Cantrip is 2d10".
Sure, IF you hit, you can do a guaranteed 1d12 on subsequent turns. But I would still rather cast another 2d10 Fire Bolt. Wet condition doubling the damage is also a bad reason, as Glyph of Warding can already demonstrate. Lightning Bolt will be even more OP.
Witch Bolt is one of those spells that desperately needs a new version in OneDnD. And hopefully Larian can implement the new version. A higher damage single hit, line AoE, or a Bonus Action recast Concentration spell.
Last edited by 1varangian; 31/01/23 01:17 PM.
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Off-topic but : Yeahhh, every threads I see that mentions Witch Boltz would just have people bashing on the spell 😅
So, yes, for future editions, it would be nice the see an improvement on the spell.
In the meantime, why would people pick it? For RP/Flavor reasons. For example, someone focusing on Lightning Damage, but I would maybe then use another "Lightning" spell when available.
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why doesn't the Ui say its too far... really?
the white line on the ground wasn't a clear enough "its too far" for that person so Larian should now redesign the game when its already falling apart from untested changes being kicked out to meet a bullshit deadline
the player is using a hack to play muliplayer on a single player system,
they ignored the white line showing them the range of their selected spell
they didn't spend a point to increase the spells range so it would reach and they didn't move within range or pick another spell
and at the end of the day Larian said, "you know what, a player is always right so let him waist his turn... perhaps he has a role play reason to toss it or is just not thinking"
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
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why doesn't the Ui say its too far... really?
the white line on the ground wasn't a clear enough "its too far" for that person so Larian should now redesign the game when its already falling apart from untested changes being kicked out to meet a bullshit deadline
the player is using a hack to play muliplayer on a single player system,
they ignored the white line showing them the range of their selected spell
they didn't spend a point to increase the spells range so it would reach and they didn't move within range or pick another spell
and at the end of the day Larian said, "you know what, a player is always right so let him waist his turn... perhaps he has a role play reason to toss it or is just not thinking" Yep, its a uniquely terrible spell. Whenever I see anyone use it I always think "I want this person to fail at everything in life, just like they fail at choosing spells to cast". It is not a generous thought. And now the UI doesn't warn players when the spell is out of range to re-cast. Seems very on-brand for Witch Bolt.
Blackheifer
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Yes, Witch Bolt has caught me out before, I think due to range and also maybe because there wasn’t a clear path. Totally agree the game should make clear whether the Witch Bolt can be activated and ideally not let us waste our action if not. Regarding the spell more generally (popping in spoiler tags as off topic) … I’ve also found it underwhelming, but as part of my 5e self-education and after watching the Vox Machina animated series, I’ve been dipping into a few old Critical Role vids, and yesterday happened to watch an episode where a guest warlock character managed to do a serious amount of damage to a white dragon with Witch Bolt. Okay, she was level 10 or 11 I think so the spell was upcast by a fair few levels, but it helped me see how the spell might eventually come into its own given that with the expenditure of one spell slot, if you can hit once and keep concentration you can keep doing guaranteed substantial damage each turn, and it definitely felt as though it would outperform a cantrip that would do less damage and might miss each time. I’m not saying the spell can’t be improved or that there aren’t always better choices, but I do now think it’s not necessarily quite such an unreasonable spell to have in your book to try if you’re running low on spell slots and if it fits the RP concept for a character. EDIT: I’ve just seen the later post from Wormerine saying that the extra damage only applies to the initial round and yes, looking at the 5e spell description that’s completely right. They obviously either home brewed or missed that in the Critical Role vid I watched. Okay, it’s a terrible spell  .
Last edited by The_Red_Queen; 31/01/23 02:16 PM.
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Off-topic but : Yeahhh, every threads I see that mentions Witch Boltz would just have people bashing on the spell 😅
So, yes, for future editions, it would be nice the see an improvement on the spell.
In the meantime, why would people pick it? For RP/Flavor reasons. For example, someone focusing on Lightning Damage, but I would maybe then use another "Lightning" spell when available. Picking it for RP reasons, yeah. Storm themed or Blue Dragon themed Sorcerer or such. I like flavorful Sorcerers rather than "optimized" ones who pick the most mechanically powerful or useful spells. Hence better balance would be preferred from WotC/Larian. Even when playing a Wizard I like to think the character has some preference towards certain kinds of spells or elements. But it's not a great feeling to use mechanically weak spells with much more powerful options available. The Witch Bolt SFX and VFX are also satisfying. Just the spell itself.. isn't.
Last edited by 1varangian; 31/01/23 02:10 PM.
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Valid, but I'm still more concerned about "why should I spend a spell slot to deal 1d12 damage, when a Cantrip is 2d10". Hmm, I actually used Witch Bolt quite a lot in my early playthroughs, until I realised that upcasting applies to initial damage only. I think it is a decent option early on, but without scaling of guaranteed damage I don't see myself using it past level 4.
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[/spoiler] Yes, Witch Bolt has caught me out before, I think due to range and also maybe because there wasn’t a clear path. Totally agree the game should make clear whether the Witch Bolt can be activated and ideally not let us waste our action if not. Regarding the spell more generally (popping in spoiler tags as off topic) … [spoiler] I’ve also found it underwhelming, but as part of my 5e self-education and after watching the Vox Machina animated series, I’ve been dipping into a few old Critical Role vids, and yesterday happened to watch an episode where a guest warlock character managed to do a serious amount of damage to a white dragon with Witch Bolt. Okay, she was level 10 or 11 I think so the spell was upcast by a fair few levels, but it helped me see how the spell might eventually come into its own given that with the expenditure of one spell slot, if you can hit once and keep concentration you can keep doing guaranteed substantial damage each turn, and it definitely felt as though it would outperform a cantrip that would do less damage and might miss each time. I’m not saying the spell can’t be improved or that there aren’t always better choices, but I do now think it’s not necessarily quite such an unreasonable spell to have in your book to try if you’re running low on spell slots and if it fits the RP concept for a character. EDIT: I’ve just seen the later post from Wormerine saying that the extra damage only applies to the initial round and yes, looking at the 5e spell description that’s completely right. They obviously either home brewed or missed that in the Critical Role vid I watched. Okay, it’s a terrible spell . All off topic, nothing else to say about the UI issue. The other problem is how concentration is treated in BG3. The AI treats a concentrating Spellcaster like its the biggest threat on the battlefield and will dash across the board to try to break that concentration. I actually use it to draw out enemies into a trap where they can get chewed up. Otherwise I try to avoid all concentration spells like the plague.
But yeah, they need to go back and re-work the Witchbolt spell - cool concept - but terrible execution. Or maybe totally scrap it and build a new electricity based spell at first level.
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More off topic chat about the spell/concentration, hidden for ease of ignoring … The other problem is how concentration is treated in BG3. The AI treats a concentrating Spellcaster like its the biggest threat on the battlefield and will dash across the board to try to break that concentration. I actually use it to draw out enemies into a trap where they can get chewed up. Otherwise I try to avoid all concentration spells like the plague.
But yeah, they need to go back and re-work the Witchbolt spell - cool concept - but terrible execution. Or maybe totally scrap it and build a new electricity based spell at first level. Yes, totally, concentration is poorly handled by AI. Obviously it makes sense for enemies to try to break concentration spells that are debuffing or damaging them, but not to the extent of running into traps or doing other stupid stuff. Plus there are those issues mentioned elsewhere on these forums with too-frequent concentration checks or incorrectly concentration-ending effects. It does sound as though WotC should rework/replace Witch Bolt, but pending that I wonder if BG3 should homebrew it to apply upcast damage on subsequent rounds (making it a bit like a single-target save-less Call Lightning) or, if they keep damage at 1d12 on subsequent rounds, making reactivation a bonus action more like Heat Metal. Though I guess either of those might make it overpowered, particularly without a save.
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WB would be an awesome spell if you can recast it as a bonus action while still being able to cast another spell as an action. Heck to add more balance make a concentration check to keep it up.
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WB would be an awesome spell if you can recast it as a bonus action while still being able to cast another spell as an action. Heck to add more balance make a concentration check to keep it up. agreed
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Yoda: That is why you failed.
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WB would be an awesome spell if you can recast it as a bonus action while still being able to cast another spell as an action. Heck to add more balance make a concentration check to keep it up. Hell, yeah! Seriously that would fix this shit show of a spell.
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To make the spell viable i would agree to either make the automatic dmg a bonus action or to have the upcast dmg for subsequent activations too.
On the other hand, it is "just" a 1st lvl spell. So it is not unusual to get less and less effective at higher levels.
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WB would be an awesome spell if you can recast it as a bonus action while still being able to cast another spell as an action. Heck to add more balance make a concentration check to keep it up. So ... Make it Heat weapon? O_o
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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So ...
Make it Heat weapon? O_o Yep, I already suggested that above but hidden in spoiler tags so not surprised if you missed… It does sound as though WotC should rework/replace Witch Bolt, but pending that I wonder if BG3 should homebrew it to apply upcast damage on subsequent rounds (making it a bit like a single-target save-less Call Lightning) or, if they keep damage at 1d12 on subsequent rounds, making reactivation a bonus action more like Heat Metal. Though I guess either of those might make it overpowered, particularly without a save.
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Also fix Heat Weapon so you can choose to target weapon or armor. It automatically seems to always target weapon which, if they drop, it stops the spell.
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Valid, but I'm still more concerned about "why should I spend a spell slot to deal 1d12 damage, when a Cantrip is 2d10". Hmm, I actually used Witch Bolt quite a lot in my early playthroughs, until I realised that upcasting applies to initial damage only. I think it is a decent option early on, but without scaling of guaranteed damage I don't see myself using it past level 4. It's an odd spell to commit to using every turn, even at low levels. Who are you going to use it against? If you're fighting against something dangerous, you're better off casting Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb every turn for a significant increase in damage. On the other hand, weak enemies die before this spell can get enough hits in for the 10 turn auto-hit to pay off. I think the auto-hit is what makes it suck, because there is no point in committing your action to weak guaranteed damage for 10 turns against a single target. I think it should be changed into one of the following: - only 1+2 turns duration, but more damage - one hit but jump to additional targets, i.e. mini Chain Lightning - line AoE against Dex Saving Throw i.e. mini Lightning Bolt - reactivation is a Bonus Action but spell ends if you don't use it
Last edited by 1varangian; 01/02/23 03:19 PM.
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It's an odd spell to commit to using every turn, even at low levels. If you're fighting against something dangerous, you're better off casting Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb every turn for a significant increase in damage. On the other hand, weak enemies die before this spell can get enough hits in for the 10 turn auto-hit to pay off. I think the auto-hit is what makes it suck, because there is no point in committing your action to weak guaranteed damage for 10 turns against a single target. For me, the payoff is (or should be) the fact that it doesn’t require use of a new spell slot to reactivate. So I think you were right in an earlier post to compare the benefit of reactivating Witch Bolt on a subsequent turn to use of a cantrip and to point out that it’s probably not going to beat that as an option for most builds, at least after level 5 once the possibility of additional cantrip damage is almost always going to be worth the risk of missing. I do agree that the fact that you’re probably not going to get more than two or three rounds of use out of reactivation at these lower levels needs to be taken into consideration when deciding whether to use it rather than a one-off spell that might be expected to do higher initial damage, but don’t see this as a problem in itself. But once damage on subsequent rounds becomes irrelevant, which it does if reactivation is never going to be the best option, I agree that it becomes more of a straight competition between the initial damage of Witch Bolt treated as a one off spell and the other one-off spells that we could cast instead at the same level, and unless picked for RP reasons it’s not going to do all that well there.
Last edited by The_Red_Queen; 01/02/23 03:56 PM.
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It's an odd spell to commit to using every turn, even at low levels.
Who are you going to use it against? If you're fighting against something dangerous, you're better off casting Magic Missile or Chromatic Orb every turn for a significant increase in damage. On the other hand, weak enemies die before this spell can get enough hits in for the 10 turn auto-hit to pay off. I think the auto-hit is what makes it suck, because there is no point in committing your action to weak guaranteed damage for 10 turns against a single target. Basically. The additional consideration is that level 2-4 wizards are spell-slot limited. Witch Bolt's strength is supposed to be that it can deal auto damage each turn without costing additional spell slots, which will help wizards last through the Adventuring Day. Of course, this doesn't really matter in BG3, which makes the spell practically useless. Especially given that spell-slot preserving is less relevant in BG3, I'd be in favor of buffs to WB. Restrictions for Witch Bolt- Witch Bolt deals damage over multiple turns, so it should do less damage in a single turn than any other 1st level spell. - As an Action, Witch Bolt needs to be preferable over Cantrips. It achieves this mainly by dealing auto damage (if you succeed on the initial cast). - It requires concentration, which means it needs to have sufficient power to be a viable option over other concentration spells. - It needs to be worth the opportunity cost: i.e., if an enemy dies in 2 turns then you'd be much better off slot-wise by just casting cantrips, or casting any other 1st level spell + a cantrip. Potential good options (while preserving Witch Bolt's theoretical infinite duration)- If it remains an Action, then upcasted damage should probably apply to subsequent turns, not just the initial damage. At 3rd level, you'd deal a guaranteed 3d12 damage against a single enemy, which is comparable to Call Lightning's 3d10 damage to enemies in a 5-foot radius, Dex ST for half. - You should be allowed to jump the Witch Bolt to a new enemy once the first one dies. - It could be moved to a Bonus Action damage on subsequent turns, but the enemy gets a Dex ST to halve the damage to balance that out.
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