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stranger
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OP
stranger
Joined: Oct 2020
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+1 all stats sounds good but not usually optimal if you are min-maxing. If you're just roleplaying then sure, who cares, but for balance purposes it seems like there is no build for which Human is the optimal race.
Plus I seem to have read somewhere that in most editions of DnD humans get an extra feat as well, either on top of the global ability score +1, or where they pick 2 ability scores to increase by 1, and get the free feat.
Meh?
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
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Well. It's in the rules.
But i agree and hope that we will get the Variant Human as a Sub-Race.
That would be +1 to 2 Stats of your choosing and a feat at level 1 i think.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2019
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Regardless of what you'd like to be good at, one of the other racial choices will be better than the standard human. They've no darkvision, no special abilities, and the vast majority of those +1s will be mechanically meaningless.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2022
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In BG1&2 humans got nothing.
(Actually got access to dual-classing, but that was both OP or weak as)
+1 to all stats interacts really well with point-buy; you can get +9 total modifers for a strong overall character. You could even get 3x 16s for a strong but unbalanced build.
It also models that only exceptional human heroes can match archetypical demihuman heroes.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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seems like there is no build for which Human is the optimal race That really depends a lot on what do you concider to be "optimal" ... Sure, humans dont start with any 17s ... but since 17 makes your modifier to be +3, just as 16 does ... what does it matter? Humans are able to start with 3x 16 score in point buy system ... how is that not "optimal"?  ( I remember that someone told me once that Humans are only race that can do this ... but i feel like Half-Elves have it too.) And even if you start concidering later levels and Ability Score Incerases ... Race that starts with 17 still needs two ASI to get to 20 ... just as Human does. And Race that starts with 17 still (usualy, but i know there are some exceptions where you just take feat with +1 to some score) need to put that second point somewhere else, when they take second ASI ... humans just allready did that on level 1.  And for roleplay perspecitve ... Basicaly this: Regardless of what you'd like to be good at, one of the other racial choices will be better than the standard human. Yeah ... You decided to play boring, regular, generic Human ... so its to be expected that your stats will be boring, regular, generic, and you will hardly exceed in anything compared to specialized races. This is what Humans are, bcs this is what Humans are supposed to be ... Good enough in everything, not excellent in anything.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2014
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I like playing characters who have several 14's and 12's in their stats. Only humans can do that and it's what makes them unique. Decent Saving Throws across the board or having 14 Charisma regardless of class to be the face of the party are not insignificant by a longshot.
Next edition of DnD will get rid of racial ability score bonuses anyway. That's also fine. PC's should be outside the racial stereotypes. Most NPC's should still have the stereotypical adjustments though, to maintain their flavor.
Last edited by 1varangian; 02/02/23 11:16 AM.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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Generally speaking, Standard Sumans are pretty bad in 5e. Most classes don't really care for more than 3 stats, meaning that leaving the rest at low values just isn't a big deal. People who play humans tabletop typically use the Variant Human, which gives us +1 skill, +1 to two stats of our choice and 1 feat.
Hopefully we get V-human as an alternative at release.
Don't you just hate it when people with dumb opinions have nice avatars?
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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Yes, I can see that for MAD classes in particular, a human who can get +1 in three or four stats might be preferable to another race that gets +2 in one stat and possibly +1 in another. Yes, half elves can also get bonuses to three stats but one of them has to be charisma which isn’t useful for monks or melee rangers, say.
As I think folk have said, the racial ability bonuses aren’t so great as to make any race/class combo impossible, but I think there are classes for which a human is at least amongst the races with most natural fit, despite the fact they sacrifice specialism for versatility.
Which isn’t to say I’d object to Variant Humans being added, just that even if they aren’t then I’ll still probably pick Humans for a couple of my characters.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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addict
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addict
Joined: Aug 2022
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Meanwhile, I just hope for Tasha's custom ability scores and proficiencies to officially be in the game 😅 There is indeed an entirely customizable variant human (which is in the PHB) : http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/humanThis keeps the "flexible"/"versatile" aspect of humans, but is far better and this seems to be the consensus among the D&D community, for instance : - https://rpgbot.net/dnd5/characters/races/human/The vast majority of the time that you play a human, you’re going to play a variant human. +1 to two ability scores means that you can increase as many important ability scores as the standard human in almost any build (Monks being a possible exception), but you also get a free skill/tool proficiency and a feat. Since this is the only way to get a feat at first level and the only way to get a feat without giving up potentially crucial ability score increases, the variant human is a hugely popular option for players who want to make us of feats.
Much of this guide will draw comparisons between the standard and variant human, but to be clear up front: The variant human is better in all but the most novel of builds. The Human is notably the only race which is not significantly changed by the Customizing Your Origins optional rules. The Variant Human can trade their skill proficiency for a tool or weapon proficiency, and you can replace Common as a language proficiency, but that’s all that changes. - https://arcaneeye.com/players/dnd-5e-races/human-5e-guide/#variantMany believe that the variant human is the best race in all of D&D 5e, and we tend to agree. Variant humans get ultimate flexibility in their ability score increases, a free skill proficiency, and a feat at 1st level. This makes them one of, if not the best option for nearly every build because they are completely customizable.
Ability Score Increase: Most races get three total ability score increases, but the variant human only gets two. The upside here is that you may assign them however you like, as long as they are two different ability scores. This means that every class will be able to choose the best ability scores for their purposes.
Skills: Typically, racial features that give you a choice of a skill proficiencies let you choose from a short list. The variant human lets you pick any skill you want, ensuring that the skill is never wasted because you can choose a skill that your character will actually be able to use effectively.
Feat: Getting a free feat at 1st level is very powerful and is unique to the variant human. Certain builds require one or more feats to work, so getting it early and not having to sacrifice an ASI on a level up helps tremendously. Even builds that don’t necessarily need a feat will always find something interesting to complement the character.
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member
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member
Joined: Oct 2020
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+1 Variant Humans to be included, no reason to not include the supplemental material when you are basically with the owner of the IP.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2022
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I always wondered why the base human sub race exist when the variant one is in all cases superior. Am I missing something there or is 5e really broken on that aspect?
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2022
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because if everyone is special then no one is really special
Luke Skywalker: I don't, I don't believe it.
Yoda: That is why you failed.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Nov 2020
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I always wondered why the base human sub race exist when the variant one is in all cases superior. Am I missing something there or is 5e really broken on that aspect? This was one of the mis-steps from older editions into 5e, imo. Humans used to get different bonuses that were very beneficial in the older editions, ASI freedom, extra feat at level 1 (in addition to the normal feat at level 1 that everyone got), extra skill points, and favoured class freedom. This meant that while human was not the best choice for some extra-specialised builds, they were very good at being flexible and could be turned into nearly anything without any kind of significant penalty. And then all those penalties were taken away. Skill points turned into proficiencies, and favoured class was removed as a concept. So WotC replaced that flexibility with extra stats, which is not a bad choice, but it made human feel comparatively weaker than any other PHB race, and removed what was supposed to be the specialty of humans, their flexibility. Variant human put back some of the flexibility.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Jul 2022
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I like human and also a variant human. In tabletop.
The only real reason I always pick up other races, that the human is ugly as a dwarf. The faces of human is so bad it almost feels like solasta.
I try to instal mods to change that but I could not figure out how to do it in steam deck.
For me the face of my character are more important than stats otherwise I would play dwarf or gith or human.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
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I always wondered why the base human sub race exist when the variant one is in all cases superior. Sometimes its more fun to play worse, but still capable character ... dont damn it til you try it. 
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2017
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For me visuals matter a lot. There is one human face I like, and I would play as a human Barbarian ... if a hairless torso would exist, sadly it does not. Don't mind the stats, the +1 allows for several 16 which makes it easily possible to take a feat at lvl 4. My (visually) preferred wood elf couldn't do this, so probably I will play as Rogue instead.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jan 2023
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I'm quite confident that, if we get templates, it will be easy to download custom characters. https://www.google.com/search?q=bg3+mods+face&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=isvn&sxsrf=AJOqlzUuUmpgKZZ2fxVHy2DjK2FZfDhmWw:1678463586489&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjr2dyO3NH9AhXiQeUKHSTeDa0Q_AUoAXoECAIQAQ&biw=393&bih=707&dpr=2.75#imgrc=XE-G_9hM6mLpnM&lnspr=W10= Here is a cute Githyanki. The remaining problems are: -- unrealistic photoshoot hair (avoidable) -- character not really looking like their race (may be difficult with gith. Imagine it's a half Githyanki, I guess?) -- character looking too young in an attempt to beautify (mostly women) https://i.ytimg.com/vi/AI24s-iyR4w/maxresdefault.jpg
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stranger
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stranger
Joined: Feb 2023
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it seems like there is no build for which Human is the optimal race. It's funny you mentioned that because all the builds out there in YT about any class, you'll end up being Thiefling, Half-elf (drow) or Drow. All the other races seems sub-optimal and it's sad that only 3 races from like 9 (I think?) are the best if you want to min max. Larian should buff the racials of the other races to have more choice, even if it's not a 5e law. I mean it's a game not a tabletop why they have to be so purists about it? buff the rest!
Last edited by Roktar; 11/03/23 11:32 PM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Mar 2022
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it seems like there is no build for which Human is the optimal race. It's funny you mentioned that because all the builds out there in YT about any class, you'll end up being Thiefling, Half-elf (drow) or Drow. All the other races seems sub-optimal and it's sad that only 3 races from like 9 (I think?) are the best if you want to min max. Larian should buff the racials of the other races to have more choice, even if it's not a 5e law. I mean it's a game not a tabletop why they have to be so purists about it? buff the rest! I invite you to check this guide : https://www.aestusguides.com/guides/baldur-s-gate-3-race-tier-listDwarfs, gith and elves are very optimal choices too.
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journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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The human race is the most dull one to play with, thanks to the any-race-can-play-any-class rule. A githyanki paladin wearing that ugly humanish mail? Not the perfect type of dream to come true.
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