Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Fix Stealth

I know, this is similar to my last one, but it's different.

Stealth needs a total overhaul. Not only does it suck for combat but also stealing and virtually every element having to do with it.

My rogue sneaks up to someone and steals from them. 9 or higher to steal. She rolls 14. Success. Yay.

Before I even start to sneak away, she stands up and says someone has stolen from her. Boom. She spots my rogue and a guard suddenly shows up and arrests her.

I SUCCEEDED in my roll. Give me a chance to flipping sneak away.

It's so frustrating. You can't even play a decent rogue in this game.

Agree, I've learned to used "Turn-Based mode" when trying to steal, but it shouldn't be required if you passed the skill check.

Well...I could accept that, sometimes, and after a little while, an NPC realizes that something is missing even though they didn't sense they were getting robbed/pick-pocketed. That is an actually interesting thing to add, it's more realistic and adds consequences to actions.
But not so immediately and not systematically.

Also...again, "Turn-Based mode" is a bit annoying to trigger outside of combat (it's slow to turn it on and off), so it's rarely enjoyable/practical to use it.

+1 and I'll raise by saying we need day/night to be able to play a decent Rogue.

Seriously, it feels stupid stealing an Idol of Silvanus in the middle of a sunny day with 25 Druids buzzing about.

What I really want from Larian is some form of communication where they would ADMIT that stealth is not good and they're still working on it. Because otherwise I just see Swen in my head going "yeah we left the broken OP stealth in because players found it fun".

Half the time I do a stealth attack, other times my stealthee gets ganked all on their lonesome. I can kind of see the rhyme and reason to it, but I might as well just get the high AC characters to charge into the fight. In AC and HPs we trust.

Ah dang. Yeah. TB mode. That's probably what Larian is thinking. They're probably like, "It's the same with Stealth as with Perception checks. If you're moving too fast, it doesn't matter if you spot a trap, aka succeed in your Perception check. You are considered to have spotted the trap too late. Maybe you should try moving slower through an area, maybe in Stealth mode so you can spot traps in time to not set them off. Same with stealing outside of TB mode. You're trying to rush the pickpocketing. It's no wonder that they spot you."

The problem with that line of thinking is that it's incredibly annoying to players who don't realize what rules the DM is playing by. Maybe if they had some tool tips to say, "If you want to steal effectively, you need to use TB mode," that at least would let players know that if they don't use TB, they have a greater risk of getting caught.

Regardless, stealth in this game sucks. It needs an overhaul on DO many levels.

I honestly found little use for manual TB aside from stealth-stealing, and traps.

So I have been vocal how I dislike how only some characters turn combat - so I thought I will manually initiate turn based before striking and than it will work normally, right? After all, all my characters are already in TB mode.

Nooope, the character who attacked joined combat, while the others were kicked out of manual TB into real time. They were still chained, because of course they were, so when I switched to one of the character outside combat instance two remaining companions happily strolled across the battlefield entering combat and loosing entire turn.

Just ughhhh.

The whole sneak thing is botched atm anyway.

My favorite is still that RIGHT after you aquired somthing, some NPC talks to the party and accuses us. No roll needed, just say "i know nothing". HOW do they even know its missing? I can even understand that our party is a little suspicious since its new but this is annoying.

Even when stealing invisible that happens at times.

Lord AO watches us..always

As for sneak attack...i dont like to have to click it. should be a passive.

You want them to remake stealth when they are wrapping everything up. What could go wrong with that plan?! Good plan right there... i admire your persistence.

Those aren't big changes, dev-wise. So, it wouldn't require that much time.

And there's still plenty enough of time 😅

(Edit : at least, some of the changes could be considered "polishing")

+1 that the stealth/theft system needs work.
- If you succeed on your stealth/theft check, there should at the very least be a delay period before the target notices something is missing. Additionally, they shouldn't immediately suspect who the culprit is. Or maybe the NPC should need to make an Insight check or something to suspect you.

However, those changes would probably break the game, making thieving even more trivial. Roughly in increasing order of complexity, I'd personally want
- A hearing-circle of detection around NPCs would be great. You need to make a stealth check to actually sneak behind them (instead of it being automatic), then another check to actually steal any items. Requiring 2 successes would make it much harder to steal, replacing the immediate post-theft accusations.
- theft to be more difficult (and realistic), at least against merchants. They should have guards/ a locked chest full of their wares / something more than "I steal from the merchant themselves, making a single check to steal plate armor right out of their pockets."
- There is some threshold at which merchants/entire towns start to automatically suspecting the party, as they've noticed a correlation between the party arriving in town and items going missing. At this point, their behavior approaches the current BG3 implementation.
- Day/night cycle, with different conditions for thieving.

Yeah, all that sounds great, but I'd be happy with just something a little simpler.

So did that Tiefling kid, when its stealing from you ...
And yet, narator will tell you as you leave the shop that you were robbed.

I mean ... yeah, at least few seconds would be appreciated.
But it kinda makes sense that they will find out.

Not if you succeed in the roll. Unless someone checks their pockets every few seconds, they would not notice for some time that they are missing a small item.

That is what it is about or not?

You use a skill and succeed you want it to work out. Stealing is all about not getting caught. And even if the NPC realizes that, it should be reported to "security" and not just accuse the party. In case of the Grove, suspicion should be with the tiefling kids since they seem kinda
notorious for that.

Even if the theft gets recognized right away, the question to the party should be: "I have been robbed, have you seen anything suspicious?" and not an outright accusation (even if you can just say no) That just feels like you failed

Again ... that child succeed in the roll ...
That is why you didnt notice, WHEN he snatched in from your pocket.

A bit later tho (few seconds in the same scene) ... you noticed that your pocket feels lighter ... so you checked and find out you were robbed.
That is litteraly what Narator tells you.

Same rules for everyone man.
Stop NPC discrimination!

Okay, so I tested it on the same NPC, Nadira. Outside of TB, I rob her and she immediately notices, even if I win the Sleight of Hand check. Before I can even get away, she accuses me of stealing and calls a guard. No ability to run. Nothing. The guard just magically appears. She doesn't run off to fetch them or nothing. THAT is broken. That is frustrating and it sucks. From a player perspective, I shouldn't have to figure out that I need to enter TB mode to properly steal. If I succeed in the Sleight of Hand roll, I should be able to walk away without incident.

And it isn't NPC discrimination, RagnarokCzD... lol. It's mechanic discrimination. My characters are PCs. They should get special treatment especially in a video game. If I succeed in the roll, I should be able to successfully steal and walk away without getting accused. Meanwhile, the scene with the tiefling kid is a dialogue cutscene. It's story driven. So it's different.

Regardless, TB mode stealing goes to the opposite extreme. So, I TB moded Nadira and ROBBED HER BLIND without her even noticing that her pockets were bereft of a Soul Coin, I think it was 32 gold, several magic scrolls, two books... and all in 1 round of TB mode. I didn't have to click End Round at all. I slipped up to her outside of TB mode in Stealth Mode, I entered TB mode, selected pick pockets, and proceeded to take everything from her. Then I simply slipped away.

Well, I suppose you could say that the TB mode version of stealing is what I'm looking for outside of TB mode, but the point is that I shouldn't have to enter TB mode to achieve this. It's frustrating as a player that I have to jump through this kind of hoop to do something so basic. I shouldn't have to have another player tell me, "Hey. Try entering TB mode to properly steal from someone." It should be easy and intuitive, something user friendly and easy for new players to pick up without much thought.

The way it is now, I could see a lot of players constantly getting frustrated with stealing because they never realize that they should enter TB mode before they start stealing from someone just so that NPC doesn't immediately notice that they've been robbed.

And regardless of this particular stealth/stealing feature, the overall stealth system is still quite janky and clunky and frustrating - from sniping while hiding to characters in plate armor able to sneak right up behind enemies without a Stealth check to my thief needing to roll a Stealth check more than once when he enters a stealth cone in combat - Astarion had to make 3 stealth checks during combat, and he succeeded in the first two only to have him fail the last one so that by the time I was about to use Sneak Attack, it was disabled due to the last failed Stealth roll. Why 3 checks for one stealth cone?

It's just very bad. I've been playing this game for 2 years now, over 600 hours, and I still can't figure out stealth and make it work well. That HAS to tell you something. Until this thread, I had no idea I should enter TB mode to rob someone to avoid getting immediately accused of stealing. 600+ hours... still learning a basic mechanic of the game.

That's a bad mechanic.