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Goblin Player Character: How much Alcohol do I consume to deal with the hate? Yes. Selune have mercy.

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Maybe don't engage until something interesting is said.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
Maybe don't engage until something interesting is said.
Sometimes the threads in this forum convince me that I am in a fever dream.


Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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I feel little sad that UnknownEvil seems to be the only one who bothered to read my post. frown


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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No, I agree. Have all belligerents (goblins, Aradin's crew, tieflings) have yellow circles and let the player actually choose sides in the battle.

Problem is, plenty of noobs will carelessly attack everyone and complain they didn't know.

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Originally Posted by FreeTheSlaves
Problem is, plenty of noobs will carelessly attack everyone and complain they didn't know.
Add warning popup at the start of first such combat ... (wich would be final encounter in tutorial)
Problem solved.


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
I feel little sad that UnknownEvil seems to be the only one who bothered to read my post. frown

I hope im not. It is an awesome idea that should at least be added to some degree. I am 100% positive that it would make the game a better experience for most of the players.

Right now it seems our affilliations are pretty set. Killing Nettie does not even have an impact...does that even appear anywhere in the conversation with halsin?

Even if we were only defending ourselves, we were alone with her so noone really knows what actually happened. So after that encounter leaving the grove normally is fine, but coming back later, after she was found dead after our party asked for her should change something.

As was already mentioned, so many of our actions do not impact where they logically should.

As of now i cannot even imagine a way to play "evil" so it feel satisfactory. A way to ally with the absolutes forces to infiltrate and later betray to get rid of the tadpole would be nice.


Also, if larian wants certain groups to be friendly from the start, like the grove for example, there would be better ways.

The initiation of the grove fight could start with us meeting aradins group while they flee past us and the chasing goblins attack us...that way we would just fight against goblins that attack us (done right that could even work with a goblin PC).

That would also make it more reasonable that the grove is accepting us, no matter the heritage. (even if certain race choices should still enounter problems).

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What can we say? The Evil Path Needs Some Work

I fail to see how attacking the goblins during the tiefling fight could be rationalized by evil characters, even goblin characters, but moving things around a little does open the possibility of us not immediately falling in with the Tieflings
Originally Posted by Sozz
First of all being evil doesn't need to mean being interested in joining the bad guys, much like not being given an option to join Sarevok or Irenicus isn't a shortcoming for those games. But in BG:3 we are given a thin 'in' into the cult, siding with Minthara doesn't even directly lead to it, you have to side with her, then suborn her into your scheme. The problem there is that, I have very little idea what our motivations for going through all of that is, are we on board with the Absolute or is it just a long con to get us into a position to remove the tadpole. Either option might be interesting but it's also not very supported by the game, of course my experience siding with Minthara is very minimal so people should chime in with how that route has developed.

[...]

As for moving things around to make siding with the goblins more natural:

Instead of having our first encounter with the mercenaries be a cutscene of them hammering on the gate followed by unavoidable combat, move it back so that we run into them still trying to get to the grove, how this encounter goes down could be very depended on how you're roleplaying your character and their alignment

Aradin: quick! we have to make it to the hidden grove goblins are on our tail!(sic)
*G: Of course lets go/fight/hide
LG: Whatever happens we can't lead them to your grove, we'll fight them here -->persuade?
NE: Good luck with that...(Odd, goblins don't usually tussle with druid groves)
LE: You'd be willing to draw those things to your people, turn around and face them or I'll kill you myself ->intimidate?
CE: Things look pretty bad for you guys, I think I'll just put you out of your misery now.

Now you've got a scenario where you might be the ones who kill the mercenaries followed by an encounter with the goblins who were chasing them...in fact in this scenario finding the grove actually becomes you're main objective similar to how killing the goblin leaders is your main objective now...it could work.

I've also just realized a bit of a plothole, the goblins are chasing Aradin, but as soon as they find the grove they should be either sending someone back to tell the war party, or just turning back all together.

Last edited by Sozz; 05/02/23 03:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sozz
I've also just realized a bit of a plothole, the goblins are chasing Aradin, but as soon as they find the grove they should be either sending someone back to tell the war party, or just turning back all together.

That would indeed be sensible, but I feel like goblins aren’t known for their strategic nous so I’m willing to let it slide smile.

More generally regarding the fight at the gates, the way I read it is that the goblins jump to the conclusion we’re not on their side so they attack us and we have to defend ourselves. It would be nice to have an opportunity to persuade or show them we actually have no beef with them, though it’s not a high priority for me and I do recognise that there’s only so many branching possibilities Larian can code for. But the less we bash up against the limits of what’s programmed the more immersive the game is, so I certainly wouldn’t object to more options at the gate if they were added!


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Yeah, I dunno. I mean that fight is pretty heavily foreshadowed and there's already the option to hide (or retreat) and not participate.
(I don't think some dialogues check for participation, something to fix up - albeit some grove people don't witness the fight and rely on iffy hearsay anyway.)

There is some story justification for the goblins to be in a mood to fight, and simply fall upon the party. Dialogue requires 2 willing parties, and if the goblins aren't interested...
(DMG has some DCs for influencing NPCs, by memory, it's not possible to influence once fighting begins - which is why the level 2 Calm emotions spell exists.)

Grove defences are weak; Zevlor and Wyll man the gate but the others are driven back by initial volley of arrows. And these goblins are presumably part of the same warband that've driven Aradin's party back in skirmishes. Not so surprising they're over-confident.

Last edited by FreeTheSlaves; 05/02/23 06:49 PM.
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Originally Posted by Sozz
I fail to see how attacking the goblins during the tiefling fight could be rationalized by evil characters, even goblin characters
Honestly?
Me neither ... but that is up to player. wink

Originally Posted by Sozz
I've also just realized a bit of a plothole
And its far from being the only one. :-/


I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. frown
Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are! frown
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Druids: Why did you help us Goblin?
Goblin: Because I love disappointing my Mother. Does it matter? Here to save you.

Just things like that, I thrive off that kind of dialogue and reactions.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Well ... they showed simultaneously, at best few seconds difference ...

Since this seems to be the main issue with what we're discussing I'll just address this.

The way I always interpreted the situation our party shows up after the goblins by a fair amount of time. The scenario is set up like this:

- We see Aradin's group at the gates begging to be let in.
- The goblins are loosing arrows at them.
- The goblins show up.
- Battle begins.
- The goblins have all taken strategic locations around the defenders. There are goblins just a turn from Aradin's front lines and multiple goblins have taken the nearby hill between where we appear and the gate.
- We finally get to act and are located south of the goblin raiders, who are between us and Aradin's group.

This really does not give the impression we appeared at the exact same time. If we did then our party stood still and did nothing as we watched the goblins swarm in ahead of us, which still shows a clear distinction in behavior between the two groups.

I dunno if maybe you and I just take different routes to the battlefield or something, but I think the big misunderstanding here is that we're envisioning very different battles.

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I'm secretly hoping for a special cutscene where our Gobbo gets hit by friendly fire and, depending on his health, dies and has to be resurrected (finally a reasonable use for Ressurection Scrolls or Withers). Shortly after the friendly fire there is a skeptical apology like well it was satisfaction enough to finish you off once. Behave yourself in the grove or you die again, final etc. pp). rpg008

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Originally Posted by Lotus Noctus
I'm secretly hoping for a special cutscene where our Gobbo gets hit by friendly fire and, depending on his health, dies and has to be resurrected (finally a reasonable use for Ressurection Scrolls or Withers). Shortly after the friendly fire there is a skeptical apology like well it was satisfaction enough to finish you off once. Behave yourself in the grove or you die again, final etc. pp). rpg008

Goblin: You hit me on purpose.
Refugee Archer: You can't prove that.

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