Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Request: Change Lae’Zel’s fighting style (or give us a choice)

Listen, I’m not an idiot. I see what Larion is doing. They want to set Lae’Zel up to be able to wield that Githyanki Silver sword toward the end of the game. So they give her the great weapon fighting style to set up for that.

But y’know what is more important than setup for a future plot point? Surviving to get to that plot point. With her only 13 dex, and no plate mail in the first 5 levels of the game, I find Lae’Zel gets murc’ed constantly. Three shots from a gnoll? Dead. Four attacks from her rival gith? Dead. Man my dragon-blooded sorcerer has the same AC as Lae’Zel does.

Whenever I play Lae’Zel I end up equipping her with a shield, using an 1-hander, and just ignoring the great weapon fighting thing.

My thought is, and hear me out, give her the fighting style that gives you +1 to AC if you are wearing armor. That’s the best of both worlds. If you want to equip a greatsword, great! Shield? Also great! Any build for Lae’Zel can make use of the AC boost.

I know I’m gonna get a lot of toxic board members yelling at me for even daring to say she should have a different fighting style and YES, I get it, it make sense from a story perspective for her to be aiming to fight with a gith silver sword, but like I said, this way anyway you wanna play Lae’Zel you can without sacrificing one of her abilities

I actually feel a bit worried by the implication that there are so many toxic board members that even the subset who might care enough about this specific issue to yell would be considered “a lot” !

I could be wrong of course, but I don’t expect this is an issue folk will get angry about. Personally I’m on the fence. Certainly you’re right that the defence(?) fighting style is the more versatile so makes a lot of sense for a companion. But on the other hand I myself like the companions to have a specific character expressed partly through their build and am happy to work around this as a constraint, and haven’t noticed keeping Lae’zel alive being particularly problematic on top of the difficulty of certain encounters.

I guess the most flexible option would be to allow us to rejig our companions’ level one build, including stats, spells and cantrips as has been suggested elsewhere. Again, this isn’t something I would be clamouring for if there were just a few tweaks to the existing builds, but I certainly wouldn’t object either.

PS I’m sure if there aren’t mods for this already then there will be, though I wouldn’t want Larian to use the possibility of mods as an excuse not to consider what would be the optimal default choice.

I sometimes have Lae'zel switch to sword & board for more survivability, such as with the Githyanki patrol. (And yes, I did that first play through - and I'll be doing it in game release when approaching big risk new areas.)

A fighting style is what a warrior is best at, but doesn't mean they aren't good at other styles too. I've had my MC sword & boarder switch to greatclub vs Grym because that was all I had.

Personally, I wouldn't want her level 1 choice changed because it's personality defining. She's aggro and all attack, so that style suits best. However I suspect we'll be able to choose her level 1 choices when playing her as MC.

I'm a bit divided about this. Having us choose the setup of the group is convinient. I wanted that too since we can control it from lvl 2.

But immersion wise it is good as is. Even not beeing able to control the lvlups of the other partymembers would be ok for me. So they evolve like their character is written.

And i must say that i never really had problems with her dying more than the rest of the grp when attacked by multiattack x5. Her Half-plate is a good armor and at lvl 4 you can give her dex 14, that would give her an AC of 17. not too bad.

But all in all this is a player preference.

P.S.: This is the least toxic forum i ever wrote in. :O

This forum? Toxic? Hoo Boy, you ain't seen nothing.

I find small boosts, such as a +1 to AC, really useless in games. In 19 out of 20 attacks, that one AC won't make a difference. Unless you can stack that with a whole lot of other +1s and +2s, it's not going anywhere.

Meanwhile, Great Weapon fighting is necessary to get the best out of Great Weapon Master. With the accuracy loss, you need all the damage you can get. Bless only helps so much.

If a character being downed is dangerous, that's a general weakness of the party. The problem isn't Lae'Zel, it's not having a healer. In my two paladin playthrough, they ran around with 14/15 AC happily and it never even mattered. The eventual 15/17 was an upgrade, but underwhelming.

A character, specifically /Lae'Zel/ being downed was very dangerous in my caster class playthrough. If she was down, there was no picking her up again. The enemy would target and down her before she even got a turn. That made her useless.

So, it's true that Las'Zel has no tanking ability. However, that +1 AC will mean she sucks -5% less at tanking for casters, and a whole lot more in melee parties that can heal.

The crux of the matter is that you can't just have a tank and call it a day. You need a healer and a tank, or you should go full glass canon. What dies quicker can't do damage.

First of all, The idea isn't a +1 to AC, it's getting SOMETHING out of her fighting style if you don't want her to be a greatsword fighter.

And every +1 helps I STILL can't beat the Nere fight even with a full level 5 party, all with 19+ AC. There are just SO MANY attacks coming at you that there is no way to heal past that. I can chease it to beat them, sure, but even with fireball and glyph of warding at my disposal, I die EVERY time. I'm on like my fifth try with a paladin and I just die every time. The Gnoll fight? The

And If your response to the above is "yadda yadda Oh I can beat it on hard mode with one character you are teh such" the STFU and sit down, that's not helping, that's you contributing to the toxicity of the boards and literally being a trash human being. If you wanna give me pointers that's fine, but I don't give a damn about how much better you are than me at a videogame and how I should kill myself for being bad at it.

Sorry. . . just. . . that Nere fight is stupid and deserves to be toned down.

This isn't quite right. With 15 AC, you'll be hit ~50% of the time. With 16 AC, you'll only be hit ~45% of the time. This means you'll be hit (50-45)/50= 10% less often, taking 10% less damage. Given that only the last hit point matters in 5e, taking 10% less damage can be pretty impactful as it can result in staying up for a whole extra turn.

This effect is stronger for higher ACs. With 18 AC you'll be hit ~35% of the time, but with 19 AC you'll be hit 30% of the time: (35-30)/35 = 14% less damage. At the limit of only being hit by crits (AC>24), that final point of AC means you take 50% less damage (well, more like 40% because crits deal extra damage).

More on topic...I'm fine with this suggestion, but restricted. I like that companions have builds set in stone that match their backstories. However, Lae'zel's Fighting Style isn't necessarily intrinsically tied to her character; Defensive FS would be equally fine. Archery would be too much of a change though.

That still makes it useless in every encounter except Nere and the Gnolls by your account. Except, AC doesn't seem to work for you there, either?

I admit, I keep at least two optimized characters in every party and utilize items. In the Gnoll fight, for example, because I don't want to arrive at the second pack weakened.

As for Nere, most people either team up with the two duergar or kill the duergar before freeing Nere. I assume your problem is that you roleplay with no foreknowledge, don't use items. I'm pretty much the "kill first and speak with dead" later variety. So, I only rescue a drow I'm specifically here to kill because I want the loot. The minions die.

I'm definitely also getting a surprise attack during dialogue in, because why even talk if it's not a trap? I'm evil. I have a horrible reputation to upkeep! Not necessarily my chars, but their doom remains that I'm the player.

That's an interesting way of seeing it. I honestly don't see much of a difference in gameplay, but I'm not one Tav vs the world'ing around.

I use items. Doesn't help. First round I used the tunder arrow to knock Nere into lava a couple of times. he just jumps out and then frightens Shadowheart. Apparently the game doesn't let you cast spells while frightened even though it doesn't say that. Then there are so many enemies that they will evidentially crit my 21 AC paladin to death just through sheer number of attacks.

Sounds like a positioning problem if you're getting subject to a lot of attacks.

There are 3 height platforms to choose from:
- Being on the one with switches turns the fight into an artillery duel; focus-fire on Mind-controllers and crossbow Duergar, and the rest are easy.
- Central moving platform gives good arc of fire, but you're subject to attacks too. Use potions of invisibility when hurt for a couple of rounds of healing. Having the Jump spell for fast repositioning helps too.
- Ladder height platform is good because some duergar run around the long way to get you, splitting their numbers. And it has enough depth to retreat after shooting to force duergar to waste time dashing.

In tough fights like this, accuracy counts for a lot. You want consistency, not big swing gambits; pick +1 weapons over special powers.

Spellcasters need to be shut down fast. Silence them, use Darkness to break line of sight, Grease them prone where they'll lose concentration.

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Tbh, fighting the entire duergar plus Nere all at once is the toughest fight of EA. Are you pulling out all the stops? Have you optimized gear and spell selection? If you've got Speed potions unused or Revifify scrolls untouched, you need to cut loose. This is it!

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Back to Lae'zel, for half this fight she's a ranged combatant shooting Darkness arrows, throwing Void bulbs, bombs, you name it. She might start the battle with a few easy melee hits, but then it's Jump time. Once duergar are split into groups can she then reengage in melee.

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Level 5 is deceptive. Yes, character attack power has almost doubled, but no, character defence has only improved about 20% maybe less. My level 5 paladin with AC19 and hp49 got dropped by 8-10 goblins. That one extra hit did it. Got to still pay close attention to defence.

I don't get why you don't double smite him, have some other melee character or a caster with scorching ray finish him off. Haste potions are your friend.

If he's still alive even so, have a third finish the job. Your last guy can fight with your duergar allies. From then onward, you have your full team and the duergar. They're not more challenging than the redcaps at level 3 (or maybe I just hate the redcaps...). If you can't get through the mob towards Nere, there's not much you can do besides get backup or ranged explosives. Invisibility potions and Sanctuary, too. The ultimate time out card with a 100% casting chance, lmao.

Mainly because by the time it gets around to my Paladin's turn he's already dead or mind controlled or on the ground rooted and frightened.

Can you cast sanctuary on them pre combat?

Sanctuary makes it so that the person under the effect can't be attacked. Optimally, your duergar allies should be soaking the damage.

If you've got any other fragile party members, they might be able to make themselves invisible (Wyll), or drink a potion.

Flaming sphere also draws massive aggro and is resistant to arrows. A druid can cast it three times for a total of 150hp, which really feels more like 300 hp usually. It's probably a waste of spell slots for most other classes, but in situations like these, it's good. Can also be cast pre combat. Cast while your Tav is taking with another character on the very last dialogue choice. It can move and attack, but it's really about the aggro magnet aspect.

Shadowheart's tadpole power is also a literal life saver if you have it. Though, inkblot also should save you from ranged attacks. Even if the enemy gets their turn before you, that won't be a problem. Wizard has reflective shell. Between sanctuary, reflective shell, survival instinct and inkblot, ilithid powers are rather good here. I don't think you do. But, just an example for strategy. They can all be cast pre combat when the paladin is talking (who must cast before entering conversation).

You can both protect one character from anything and negate ranged enemy attacks. At that point, Gale and the Paladin can go in for the kill on Nere, with some third party member as backup if Haste didn't help enough. The fourth can return to the inkblot at the end of their turn and remain protected. You can retreat there in general once Nere is gone, though I'm not sure if you have the ranged options for that. Moon Druid and oath of the ancients paladin can moon beam and obliterate archers in safety, for example. Moonbeam always lands, so it's immune to disadvantage to hit chance.

Sanctuary has short duration so hard to time beforehand. I'd recommend Protection from evil, it stops mind control and lasts all day - however, it's concentration, so maybe have SH cast it and have her hide somewhere initially?

Sounds like the paladin is preemptively casting Shield of faith for the good AC, but have you also cast Aid? Might even pay to upcast to 3rd, especially if you have summons; +10hp to entire party is a lot of extra hps.

For winning initiative, you could get SH to cast Enhance ability - cat's grace. Initiative is a Dex check so that'll increase your average roll from 10+Dex to 15+Dex. SH can only concentrate on one, so pick carefully.

Larian could probably let us level each character up independently (and choose all their abilities).

The downside I see is confusing new players. At this point, we will need additional info text next to everything. In this case, next to great weapon fighting that it's the path to maximise the great weapon master ability.

I don't think this is a bad thing. It's work, but it would go together well with a massive leveling up screen overhaul. Lets us see future possible abilities and provide tips, you know?

For fights like Nere... There will always be battles that hurt badly if your group lacks an ability. However, new players are pretty much clueless until they walk into that fight.

For balance, they could make it so that your group is almost guaranteed to win initiative on the first turn. That lets you see what is going on, but remains unforgiving. Here you really need projectile protection, mastery of ranged positioning, or a group that can get to Nere in no time.

This can be a group that is ranged, melee, or relying on magic tricks, which is great. The trap aspect of the whole encounter? Not so much. Minimizing this aspect can make the fight more enjoyable. It's mostly a good fight. It makes you think. I like combat encounters that force you to reconsider your party's weaknesses.

That is interesting. What Duergar allies? When I freed Nere the first time, all Duergar (even the traitors) and from round 2 on all the Gnomes (to whom I promised to free them) turned hostile, and that mainly was the reason I lost the fight. Maybe I hit one hiding Gnome with a fireball? But why did the two Duergar who wanted Nere dead attack me? In the end I had all killed except Nere (about 10 hp left) and two Gnomes before they threw my last char into the lava. Damned.

Second try I killed the Duergar first, no problem then, but cheesing fights from out of dialog tastes bad. I spared the Grymforge up to patch 9, I'm a bit disappointed generally, but the Nere/Duergar fight was epic. I wonder how it will go when I'm there with my next char/class.


To Lae'zel: for me a +1 to AC does not make that much. In my opinion hit chances are generally too high in the game and shields too weak. It feels worse to be more defensive, it's more important to deal damage. And Lae'zel usually does not get downed very often in my campaigns because we end fights fast. I think the big weapon afinity fits her well. So I would not mind if we got the possibility to change lvl 1 decisions on companions, but it's not very high on my order of demands.

The allies are only unlockable from an optional conversation right before the fight. You have to convince them you're not a true soul or want revenge. This changes the scene with Nere. Otherwise, they are hostile since they don't trust you.

I did that dialog successfully, with the ugly bearded bald boss-like guy and his female companion in front of the door, where you later hop to the northern parts of the Grymforge. But they ran into the room and attacked me after the fight against Nere started. Or maybe I was so confused (did not expect Nere attacking me) that I hit them with a fireball by accident.