Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General What games to play other than BG3 only?

Very interesting responses to my question! I like that several of you even broke down "RPG" into more specific things like saying "story-driven" etc. I'm definitely the same as well when it comes to RPGs.

To your question, @mrfuji3, yeah I'm limited in my gaming interests mainly for two reasons. One, given my real-life time limits, I get to play video games only for a few hours each week. And on top of that, I'm the kind of gamer who likes to take my own sweet time through my RPGs, and will spend spend tons of time agonizing over a choice or even just deciding which of my party members should get a new piece of equipment. So I don't get to play too many games per year. And two, I came to gaming very late in my life, because as an immigrant to the US who put himself through years of grad school I was very broke for a very long time and was able to afford to buy my own computer only in 1998 at age 31.

It's smart of Sozz to limit it to Enterprise, as otherwise the only valid answer would be Sisko

But yeah, otherwise Picard.

There is also division how much magic is in the world.

Well since some Open World EOS fans wait for Avowed (and so does Theme park POE fan). Avowed will not be some Witcher 3, EOS type little Magic in the World that main character mostly can only fight in melee like Witcher 3. Avowed is from same world as Pillars of Eternity. POE has tried to have Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 as inspiration and is high in amount of Magic much like Dungeons Dragons.

Oh and high magic world is not always best I am not super fan of Games of Thrones and newest LOTR TV series is ruined and garbage. I am not saying Games of Thrones TV seroes was bad but it was like 8/10 to me while original LOTR movies the first one is 10/10 to me.

There are things I do not know about Avowed. How much Open World / Theme Park will Avowed be??? I do not know honestly.

This is 100% sure Avowed will have Unreal 5 graphics and be in same lore and Magical world as Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 and will also have Magic more or less at least if you choose to pick such class that can cast spells. I do know Avowed is single player game. Avowed you will control from first person view your character compare to Witcher 3 or Skyrim.
Avowed I would guess it is more Open World then POE1, but that is my guess and how it will be exactly remains to be seen.

I’m always rooting for Obsidian, even though they were gobbled up by Microsoft. I hope Avowed is good, but I found PoE2 a really difficult play in a way that gives me pause over that IP. The first POE was okay, even if the story was a bit forgettable, but the design decisions introduced in the second game were really unpleasant for me. Also, the games take themselves soooo seriously, which can work, but I don’t think Obsidian sufficiently pulled that off. Even Diablo 2 had a few scattered moments of comic relief. I don’t expect all RPGs to indulge in Divinity or FF7 levels of absurdity, but at a certain point I found both of the POE games to be overbearing in their joylessness.

Hahaa, your impressions seem in quite a contrast to mine. For example I would count story as easily the best part of PoE1.

May I ask which design decisions in Deadfire didn't work for you?

I do agree that PoE1&2 had a tone problem. I overall really like atmosphere and soberness of PoE1, and it's focus on philosopical and sociopolitical aspects of its universe but it is too one tone for 80h game. On the other hand, I am not a fan of humor of PoE2 - they went precisely for comic reliefs and I just think that doesn't fit the world. I generally love what PoE1&2 were doing, but they could use a bit more... texture...? Maybe explore those topic from a more absurdist or ironic side as well. Perhaps some gallow humor wouldn't hurt either.

I disliked the hard caps on spells for one. Nothing like entering a big boss fight, eating a massive AOE, and saying well now I need to use one of the two castings of my major heal spell and I haven’t even tried to damage the boss yet. Might as well just reload.

I think both PoE games had a problem also inherent in DAOrigins that wasn’t present in Baldur’s Gate and other D&D games: all of the characters have too many abilities. In older D&D games, non casters don’t do much besides auto-attack and chug a potion now and then. This made them not a lot of fun to play in table top, but it’s great design if you are controlling a party of characters. Tanks tank, DPSs flank, so you are mostly microing casters. In Pillars of Eternity they decided to give every class a while set of abilities. It meant I spent a lot more time baby sitting my entire party, pausing, queuing up skills, unpairing, and immediately repausing in more difficult fights. Not fun. I found this especially true in 2, but it was a problem in both games.

Because POE2 has a per encounter spell system, I eventually found myself starting every fight the exact same optimized way, meaning I was making less interesting decisions in combat.

POE2, also makes a strident effort to be super balanced, but a big part of the fun of Infinity Engine games was that they weren’t balanced, and finding ways to break them was a lot of the appeal.

That’s all I can think of off the top of my head, but I had a big old list of grievances that hampered my enjoyment, and I retire really hard to like it, too. I’ve started three games, progressed relatively far, but never beaten the game.

It really makes a lot of sense to me that POE2 underperformed to such an extent that Obsidian had to abandon their much valued independence and allowed themself to be bought out. To me that game just wasn’t fun.

My brother told me that do not play DOS2 it is comedy. My brother even ask does BG3 have lots of silly comedy and not good game? I told my brother that BG3 does not have to much comedy. I have not yet finished POE2 will do, but POE1 was great according to me and not silly comedy.

My brother said to me: "Dear brother I know you like Action and Horror and you dislike silly comedy! My brother said to me never play through DOS2 it haa silly comedy!"My brother actually played though DOS 2, and said it was fare ok game for him, but said I would not like DOS2 since it has silly comedy.

Well and I do not remember that POE1 had silly comedy. and end battle if you do not buy expansion that raise your level before that is hard challenge specially if you in settings the game to hard challenge! POE2 I do not know have only started it.

If you buy DLC in POE1 you might be between level 15-18 when you co to end battle. My group do not remember but roughly level 10-11 and the end battle was indeed stonehard! There is even a Dragon in POE1 but the end battle will not spoil what it was but your worst nightmares if you are like level 10!! Well and yes the Dragon battle was less hard then end battle in POE!! I will not spoil what was enemies in POE1 end battle, but something that scare my level 10 character more then a typical young/middle aged Dragon!

I have also heard that POE2 is to easy challenge? Perhaps I do not know, but POE1 if you do not buy expansion DLS (I did not) so you are low level and go the last end fight in POE1 that is indeed hard challenge! I did win, but died n times before that and spend hours to try win end battle in POE1!

Well and this from me who think hardest challenge Cataclysm is they only right challenge to use in Solasta DnD5 otherwise it is to easy even in Vampire battle at level 5 main campaign. You go to end battle POE 1 at level 10 and I say it is way harder then that Vampire battle at level 5 in Solasta main campaign. You turn up the challenge level settings in POE1 and go at end battle when you are level 10 you will spend hours try to win that or concede and take older save game and then buy DLC to raise your levels with their content otherwise it feels to hard for you or you are like me that did it without DLCS ultra hard challenge POE1 end battle at level 10!

I see. We don’t see eye to eye on almost every point you brought up, so I am very sad I am unlikely to ever get PoE3. To me the idea of Infinity Games have been always appealing, but combat was never tactically satisfying. poEs pretty much attempt to address most issues I have with BG1&2. PoE2 specifically, with its many subclasses give me strong BG2 vibes, but… good 😊 (taking purely systems, love BG2 overall).

One thing I would agree with you, is that making spells per-encounter homogenised encounters, at least in the base game, which even on PotD is far to easy without. I don’t think it is the case once things get tougher - DLCs provide much more challenging experience and show how well the system holds up when the difficulty is cranked up. That said, enemies do become far to HP sponges, and I preferred per-rest system of PoE1 (which in my book is still the best implementation of rest in a cRPG)

The games are definitely not without faults, but I definitely prefer their systems over any of the D&D and D&D-like titles. Would love to see more.

I did love the class mixing system and the character creation system in general. That was done really well.

I also tried Deadfire but didn’t finish it. To me there were too many narrative problems: the relationship system was a mess, the part I played had very little main plot, and I was not interested in the factions.

From your previous post I think one issue for me with the combat was that it was too balanced. I do like per encounter abilities, though, so that part was good!

Probably just not my type of game in general, but sorry they aren’t making a third game for those who liked it!

Yeah, relationship system was a major misfire. The narrative of the game is also troubled - I wouldn't call it a bad story, as it has too many good things going for it, but in too many aspects it is not a well told story. Ha! I spent entire year after Deadfire release's complaining about it's narrative issues, so I won't dig those out here.

I LOVED both PoE games. And while I also agree with some of the things that have been said here about PoE2, including especially that PoE1 was better than 2 on story and character development, that 2 had multiclassing was a HUGE plus for me over 1. In class-based games with many classes, I absolutely need multiclassing to be truly happy with the game.

PoE2 was a disappointment. I remember starting the game with a "god" that wasn't really a god in the first game, suddenly demanding I do something in a snarky attitude, so I said "no" and she killed me. So I said 'ok, i'll follow this giant statue around', and then for some reason the game became about four factions or something, and I just didn't care about any of it.

Read the ending spoilers later and was glad I didn't finish it.

Well and I am glad that I did not finish DOS2 that is crap silly comedy. I will try finish POE2. I did finish POE1. Interesting POE2 is like 9/10 on Steam and 4.1/5 on Gog.com. Well and despite I do like Dungeons Dragons rules very much indeed... POE1 reminded me lots of BG1 and BG2 and I think POE1 was 9/10 to me.

Well and in POE1 you can change them portraits of characters. I did change the women to some women pornstars or Elite Models in POE1. Have not yet tried that in POE2 but will check if it is possible.

I’m really not sure why Obsidian made the story about tracking down a giant statue god-thing that stole your soul for some reason, because that’s not what the game is about. POE2 is about exploring an archipelago, raiding pirate ships, looking for loot, and adventuring as a swashbuckler. The story should have reflected and leaned into that, because all the other activities you are doing while playing the game stand in stark opposition to the sense of urgency conveyed by the plot.

A disconnect between the two main plots in Deadfire is a major problem of that game, by their own admission.


I'd just like to add that I personally find the Pillars games vexing because I don't understand why I don't like them more, on paper they offer everything I look for in an RPG. Even if they aren't a masterclass, I don't understand why I have trouble taking the story more seriously, or feel going through it is a chore.

"Narrative hook". They need a reason for protagonist of PoE1 to be in Deadfire. I personally believe that the game would be superb if:
1) we played a new protagonist who would be invested in Deadfire's political conflict.
2) A longer ending on Ukaizo to pay off choices we did during the game.

As many, I am not fun of conversation with Gods - they were done incredibly well in PoE1, and they just feel off to me in PoE2.

Still, in my opinion best cRPGs released in recent memory, in spite of their flaws. When it comes to combat, systems or narrative in my book it is still on another level than competition. But I am completely aware that it feels like those games were made just for me.

But Obsidian could have made any narrative hook they wanted, ideally one not in contradiction to the game they were creating. That’s what I don’t get.

Though it is a little overplayed, having a mystery to solve affords the player a lot of latitude to explore the world without feeling like they are just ignoring the super important, crucially pressing, imminent danger that would work much better in a more linear game. At least Dragon Age: Origins gave you a valid reason for visiting every corner of the map petitioning for help and solving everyone’s problems. As it is, the main thrust of the plot is completely divorced from the rest of the game. It’s very odd.

But yeah, the game doesn't come together the way it should. I feel Woedicka's book ties that was added at the end of the post launch development ties things together a bit, but it is difficult for me to judge - I spent so much time replaying the game, discussing it, and reading Josh's posts I can't really look at the game with fresh eyes.

I hear ya. I think that’s enough dunking on poor Obsidian, at least for me. I really hope Avowed is a success. They’ve been hustling in the trenches for so long, if any studio deserves a major win it’s them.