While I am excited to see JK Simmons taking a role in a video game that is outside of his comfort (except for Spiderman), it seems like he is not very convincing to the audience of what he is from watching the JK Simmons trailer. For most movies, JK Simmons plays as he is really good at a certain antagonist. The one that is very controlling, manipulative through gaslighting people, aggressive, overly confident, and easily hated (and memeable). This villain on the other hand is the complete opposite. The villain is trying to be manipulative through the use of ethos (aka using emotions), he is calmer, sounds like an audiobook you listen to when going to sleep, and has a monotone voice. Here it is clear this is outside of his comfort level as an actor which makes it unbelievable.
One could think that the clown armor and and the plastic-like beard and haircut would be more harmful to his credibility as a threatening villain than some excellent voice acting.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
J.K. Simmons is amazing and we are lucky to have him.
Juno, Cider House Rules, All the Spiderman, Hidalgo, The West Wing, DOTA 2, and an almost 40 year career in acting.
A really good villain is more nuanced, someone you can possibly understand how they got where they did. Simmons has the chops to do just that.
Look, I get it, we had David Fucking Warner for Bg2 last time. I LOVED David Warner - one of my favorite movies of his is super obscure, it was called Cast a Deadly Spell - you can still watch it on HBO. Loved that movie.
But David Warner died last year, and also it might have been odd to have him in another game.
Also I think there is a rule that you can only play one Iconic Video game villain in your life. I dunno, I may have made that up. Although it would explain why Martin Sheen hasn't played anyone other than the Illusive man?
J.K. Simmons is a stellar actor and is doing a phenomenal job on the VA as far as I can tell.
What is really hurting is the corny writing in this game and the cartoony art direction. It is really hard to come from Elden Ring to this cartoony game.
J.K. Simmons is a stellar actor and is doing a phenomenal job on the VA as far as I can tell.
What is really hurting is the corny writing in this game and the cartoony art direction. It is really hard to come from Elden Ring to this cartoony game.
J.K. Simmons is a stellar actor and is doing a phenomenal job on the VA as far as I can tell.
What is really hurting is the corny writing in this game and the cartoony art direction. It is really hard to come from Elden Ring to this cartoony game.
Completely agree. Watch Whiplash and tell me he's not a convincing villain.
J.K. Simmons is a stellar actor and is doing a phenomenal job on the VA as far as I can tell.
What is really hurting is the corny writing in this game and the cartoony art direction. It is really hard to come from Elden Ring to this cartoony game.
I don't think the writing is an issue here or it is corny. Elden Ring has barely any nonoptional writing. For the most part, you can play the game without talking to any NPC or doing their quest line and still finish the game.
Last edited by Parsian; 24/02/2308:22 PM. Reason: repeated line
I don't think the writing is an issue here or it is corny.
"Death's design will be complete" "Bow before me, bow before the Absolute, bow, bow" "But you have something he doesn't, allies worth having", "together, we will strike down the absolute"
This is only from a 1:30 min video. Looks written by children for children.
I was pleasantly surprised that the very few lines in Elden Ring were actually decently written.
I don't think the writing is an issue here or it is corny.
"Death's design will be complete" "Bow before me, bow before the Absolute, bow, bow" "But you have something he doesn't, allies worth having", "together, we will strike down the absolute"
This is only from a 1:30 min video. Looks written by children for children.
I was pleasantly surprised that the very few lines in Elden Ring were actually decently written.
Seems like you are cherry-picking a trailer which was already cherry-picked to deliver as much content as possible in a 1:30 minute time frame. The first part has some great lines, not everything has to be deep cryptic nonsense.
I don't think the writing is an issue here or it is corny.
"Death's design will be complete" "Bow before me, bow before the Absolute, bow, bow" "But you have something he doesn't, allies worth having", "together, we will strike down the absolute"
This is only from a 1:30 min video. Looks written by children for children.
I was pleasantly surprised that the very few lines in Elden Ring were actually decently written.
Yeah. Unforunately this. They put so much obvious passion into their ‘things’ that I didn’t have the heart to say it as you did.
But that’s exactly it.
Every one of those quoted lines fizzles out as fast a belch.
They have their audience nailed down. And they could just pull out a plastic phallus and wave it around, and they’re Hemmingway as far their dedicated is concerned.
We won’t have a BG2 again from a financially prosperous company.
It doesn’t matter. I work with AI quite a lot my job. It’s good at mediocre code-related tasks. It takes care of the ‘donkey-work’, up to a point. You still have to double-check everything. And chatGPT didn’t even know how to round up at one point.
Irenicus was a nasty, vicious, hateful mf – he had a history even in BG1, where he cursed a former lover out of spite and turned her into a grotesuque, obsese slob, robbed of all her former powers, with only spiders to keep her alive.
That’s good villain-writing.
The villain needs to be loathsome, not just child’s cartoon ‘bad’, like what we seem to have in the latest trailer.
Think about it. What gets you more fired up to kill the big bad – is it the dude that just wants to be a ‘big evil god’?
Or is it the dude who pretended to be your friend and conned you into letting him into your house. You gave him sanctuary: he then raped your wife, slit you childrens’ throats and sacrificed their blood to his cackling mad hobgoblin god.
You’re tied down, watching all of this. He drags you outside, and his his vicious, neatherhal friends do likewise to all your friends, then gut them before you, calling you a fucking cuck all the way, a little miserable bee-atch.
Which one gets you going for the revenge story?
Apocalypse now – you can say what you want, but it built up a huge respect for the ‘hereos’ and realy made the villians out to be complete bastards.
Well, he is A villain. That we see the best of him, that he is sentimental, that he has been hurt. that he is capable, that he can protect people, that he has lost more than most humans and been driven to the very edge of sanity with loss - these are just the reasons for his behavior. He is not intentionally viscous or hateful. He does try to spare people.
That doesn't stop him from doing something absolutely unforgivable. Even Ellie, who loves and trust him more than anyone had to struggle to forgive him. This is real human villainy.
Then there is the dramatic Vaudevillian silliness of Irenicus. Great voice acting but really - so dramatic and over the top all the time. It is fun though, but Irenics - when he meets his end - is like scratching a self-righteous itch. No tears for Jon Irenicus.
Then there is the dramatic Vaudevillian silliness of Irenicus. Great voice acting but really - so dramatic and over the top all the time. It is fun though, but Irenics - when he meets his end - is like scratching a self-righteous itch. No tears for Jon Irenicus. .
I’ve never played a video game that struck me as ‘great writing’. But while BG2 was full of nonsense, it had a nonchalant charm to it that BG3 simply doesn’t have. BG3 was made by 500 people, a whole-ass factory and a converyer belt – BG2 was made by a couple of dudes just having a laugh.
Apparently Irenicus was some kind of character these dudes used to roleplay at the ‘table’, so he had this massive history built up and they said, ‘hey, how about we put him in a video game’. At least from what I’ve read in the past.
It shows.
The voice actor was obviously brilliant, but it takes more than that. The lines weren’t Shakesphere but they had an earnestness to them, a lack of self-consciousness, that gave them the edge over BG2, which is just pandering to a certain ‘crowd’.
I’ve never come across a video game that met the subtlety of The Sopranos or The Wire in terms of lines or voice-acting, but BG2 is second best to any of the other garbage that we’ve had to endure.
As for Irenicus’s death scene – best I’ve ever seen in any video. In no way ‘melodramatic’. Just a cliff, some lava, and hissing demons. ‘To end like this!’
Very nice. Lowkey and horrible af. Actually felt sorry for the dude.
Badass as well that he managed to fuck one of them over the cliff before they piled on him.
BG3 trailer is all falsh by comparison. Glowing eyes, big-ass rays of light blasting from hands and so on.
Irenicus was great. The Tony Soprano of video games. And yeah, video games as I said don’t exactly attract the world’s greatest writerly genius, but BG2 had all the good stuff compared to the rest.
Edwin was funny. That thing that happened to him was hilarious – and would be completely unacceptable today. Minsc had great chemistry with the fairy girl. Haer’Dalis was cool. Viconia was proper hot.
Anyway, we’ll have all that again in a few years thanks to AI. We’ll have a lot of good things again soon, trust me on that.
Well, he is A villain. That we see the best of him, that he is sentimental, that he has been hurt. that he is capable, that he can protect people, that he has lost more than most humans and been driven to the very edge of sanity with loss - these are just the reasons for his behavior. He is not intentionally viscous or hateful. He does try to spare people.
That doesn't stop him from doing something absolutely unforgivable. Even Ellie, who loves and trust him more than anyone had to struggle to forgive him. This is real human villainy.
Then there is the dramatic Vaudevillian silliness of Irenicus. Great voice acting but really - so dramatic and over the top all the time. It is fun though, but Irenics - when he meets his end - is like scratching a self-righteous itch. No tears for Jon Irenicus.
Nobody feels that way when Joel dies.
Not really a fan of Last of Us, it is just a mash up/recycle of different movies/franchises including Children of Men. There is really nothing original about LoU. Joel is also the protagonist, so he is constructed/portrayed differently. Irenicus is quite complex and has many subtleties (including his initial dungeon) that I discussed extensively in a thread years ago.
But I give you that LoU at least has some organic dialogues and it is a game from 2013. So it is really outrageous when you see BG3 in 2023 with a massive budget still doing these corny lines.
Originally Posted by snowram
Seems like you are cherry-picking a trailer which was already cherry-picked to deliver as much content as possible in a 1:30 minute time frame.
I wish this was true. But unfortunately the EA is full of poor writing.
My problem with the mentioned lines is that they fall short. A secondary problem is the cinematography. This is, perhaps excuseable because it used gameplay footage -- but that just makes it a design problem over poor execution.
Back to the writing...
"Death's design will be complete" -- either, this is misguided spice -- or too indirect a mention to the true demigods behind the absolute.
"Bow before me, bow before the Absolute, bow, bow" -- lack of motivation that isn't "I'm brainwashed". This makes him seem too generic to be *the* villain. My problem is less what is here than what isn't.
"But you have something he doesn't, allies worth having", A statement as grand as this has to be earned. It cannot be when we don't even know who these allies are.
"Together, we will strike down the absolute" Unnecessary, should not be mentioned twice in such a short clip.
Altogether, seems hastily put together. Has the making of a checklist of what needed to be said... rather than something the creator enjoyed? Maybe I'm totally off here, but the lack of real emotion makes me think the grandiosity is a coverup.
I will be honest, the character didn’t work for me at all when I watched the trailer. The delivery is subdued - it’s at odds with trailers combat music and overall “epicness†but VO itself paints an evocative character. But I don’t think it is an indication that performance or character is bad - I just don’t think this trailer is very good.
I don’t think it shows the game at its best. It’s also rather split in its purpose - one one hand it reveals a new character, while also revealing console port and coop features. Showing goofy jumps and running animation quite effectively undermine the voiceover. And cutscene quality is what it is.
I love Jon as a villain, but he works better the less you know about him. I don't think I'm the only one who thinks Baldur's Gate II's story peaks right before Irenicus' plan is put into action.
Without compelling human motivations, ones you can sympathize with, you'll have trouble creating drama in your narrative. I think you could have gotten something like that with Irenicus, but the majority of your interactions with him occur mid-apocalyptic scheme. I'm not even sure you ever have dialogue choices when talking to him.
The interesting thing is that Jon and Ketheric's motivations are more or less the same. Thorm feels scorned by his faith, so something somethingDoomsday. Parsing out so much about the game from the vagaries of a game trailer is a little much.
Originally Posted by Wormerine
I will be honest, the character didn’t work for me at all when I watched the trailer. The delivery is subdued - it’s at odds with trailers combat music and overall “epicness†but VO itself paints an evocative character. But I don’t think it is an indication that performance or character is bad - I just don’t think this trailer is very good.
I don’t think it shows the game at its best. It’s also rather split in its purpose - one one hand it reveals a new character, while also revealing console port and coop features. Showing goofy jumps and running animation quite effectively undermine the voiceover. And cutscene quality is what it is.
I think the mismatch is because they're using lines from a scene with a very different tone, the same from the VO trailer, but the trailer is building up to a big fight.
I will be honest, the character didn’t work for me at all when I watched the trailer. The delivery is subdued - it’s at odds with trailers combat music and overall “epicness†but VO itself paints an evocative character. But I don’t think it is an indication that performance or character is bad - I just don’t think this trailer is very good.
I don’t think it shows the game at its best. It’s also rather split in its purpose - one one hand it reveals a new character, while also revealing console port and coop features. Showing goofy jumps and running animation quite effectively undermine the voiceover. And cutscene quality is what it is.
This ^^
The trailer was very poor and makes the whole game look like super cheese. If this was the first trailer I saw for an upcoming game, I would probably pass. It was very generic.
The voice actor sounds great to me. Voice acting is not the problem in this game (most is excellent so far). Hells, to me, the writing is not even the problem. It is fine for a video game…and I really try to avoid nostalgia tinted glasses for games I played a decade or more ago…they all had their fair share of cheese. Loads of it.
The issues for me are tonal mismatches and chaotic presentation. Who is the game for? Is it a drama or a comedy? Is it trying to please everyone too much and diluting the quality by doing so? I get this sense in the game and in the trailer.
Not trying to be a hater. It is an ok game and I have enjoyed it so far. But that trailer was just all over the place and very unfocused…reminding me of aspects of the game I personally dislike.
