Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Experience for Defeating Enemies

In the current Early Access Build I am playing (4.1.1.2154614), I went through a long and exhausting fight against a green hag, at the end of which she surrendered. I negotiated with her to save her victim and let her go, and I got nothing mechanically from doing that. At least, nothing I wouldn't have gotten from also killing the hag, who was left with 12 hp. From a mechanical perspective, that means there's no reason not to kill the hag or anyone else who surrenders to you. I felt like I was cheated when I didn't get XP for defeating her. Had I chosen to kill the hag rather than accept her surrender, I would have gotten the XP and the quest would have continued and I'd have been able to loot not only the hag's lair but also her corpse (but that's something you give up for story reasons if you accept a surrender, and if you're willing to do that then that doesn't seem like much of a sacrifice anyway).

I defeated her, the fight ended in a victory for my party. What difference does it make if the monster is actually dead or not? I like that surrender is an option for NPCs, and that my character is less monstrous if they accept a surrender from a defeated foe. I like that my character does not technically have to be a murder hobo. However, there are enemies (more than not) that do not surrender. So for a big boss fight especially, not giving XP as though the monster was killed, feels bad. It's not fun.

Maybe this is something that's planned to be fixed for the future, but if it's not then it ought to be. I don't expect XP from every little dialogue interaction, but I do expect XP from defeating a powerful foe.

To get into the D&D5e rules as written, I'll share this little tidbit from the Dungeon Master's Guide (p160):

Larian have half-heartedly put in a bunch of "Xp-from-resolution" situations, where you get a portion of XP for diffusing, or otherwise overcoming an encounter in ways other than combat, but at the moment it's very hit and miss, and patchy, and the values are not satisfying. There's hope that this will be improved to a more satisfying and well-balanced level by launch - cross your fingers.

They cant even manage to restrict spell scroll casting to the proper classes/mechanics. Hope for something like this being balanced properly is so minuscule

You're right about that, but that's mostly about quests. It gets more complicated with factions: Zhentarim, Kuo-Toa etc. pp. Do you take the XP by killing them or do you do without it. If you do without, what alternative is there to get XP compensation. In the predecessors there were at least random encounters when traveling or resting, where you could get some XP.

That you didn't get xp is the warranted punishment for letting such a dangerous and extremely evil monster live and continue with torturing and killing innocent people just for her pleasure.

In earnest, I concur with you, the party should technically achieve the same amount of xp for any valid solution of a situation. I always kill the hag and never ever would take her hair and let her go even if she would not take the woman with her. But there is the surrender of the hag as a dialog option, why is it so difficult to give xp after the dialog? They did it in other situations, why not here? In the windmill fight you got no xp shortly after EA release if you did not kill the goblins. Now you get the xp also if you accept surrender of the boss.

Specifically on Ethel, I don’t think you do get the hair (which gives a stat boost) if you kill her, do you, so that’s a reward you can get only for negotiating with her? Plus there’s an implication that we’ll meet her again if she leaves so for all we know the associated XP for defeating her is only deferred not lost.

Though that doesn’t negate the general point that in BG3 you can get sometimes get significantly more XP by taking options that may not be as satisfying from an RP perspective, which I do agree with.

But I’ll confess that the more I’ve thought about this, the less it bothers me. My assumption is that there will be a level cap and that Larian will try to balance XP so that the cap is reached in late game by someone who explores some side content but isn’t totally completionist and who will take at least some peaceful solutions. And that normal encounter difficulty will be balanced around someone taking this approach. If so, then the only thing maximising XP would buy me is hitting the level cap earlier and making mid game encounters easier than they would otherwise be. And as I prefer to see my character continue to develop and get new abilities throughout most of the game and to have a reasonable level of challenge in the encounters, that’s not something that appeals to me.

If my assumptions turn out to be incorrect and Larian did offer anything I’d consider a real reward for XP maximisation, or if I find when playing the full game that I’m under-levevelled or don’t reach my character’s maximum level for the end game when I’m choosing less combat-oriented options, then I’m sure I’ll see addressing this issue as higher priority.

Maybe my wording was not clear, but indeed you cannot get the hair if killing Ethel. And you even cannot get the Spellthief bow if you kill her by shoving her into oblivion, what maybe should be avoided.

You can get the hair with the option that she sets Mayrina free (if you roll appropiately) or the option that she keeps her and the baby. In both cases you can still kill her or not. I always kill her because in my opinion she is too much of a danger for the world (I'm not a DnD player but my char may be chaotic good (?) if I got that strange alignments right, so independent of class I play I cannot accept such a deal). So I always get the xp but not the ability point, but that's life. I think the xp should also be applied if you do not kill her, it's a valid solution to the situation from the dialog.

Apologies, I should have made clear that my response was to the OP rather than your more recent reply, and specifically the statement ..

@ The Red Queen: Oh, I see. I fell victim to the common mistake to relate anything to themself.

It's indeed the case that the player gets a helluva lot more than a bit xp if he/she lets the monster live. For an ability point most of the players would sell their mother and betray their country. But systematically nevertheless a solution of a quest from the dialog should earn you xp.

It was a fair enough assumption! My response did come directly under yours, so no need to accuse yourself of egotism .

I thought you get XP for peacefull resolutions ...
I even thought it was in one of first patches. O_o
(Cant find it tho, but im quite sure it was in game.)

IF its gone now ... maybe Larian decided to tune it futher (since i remember you could have talked people from fight for XP, and them kill them anyway for even more XP)

I think it’s a mixed bag. Yes, sometimes you do, sometimes you don’t, and even when you do it’s not necessarily equivalent to XP you’d get taking a different approach.

Personally, I think I’d prefer something more like a milestone approach to levelling up that could avoid niggles like this, but I’m not sure how that would work in a computer game. It might be too onerous to calculate appropriate milestone XP rewards for everything independently, and might still be open to exploitation or not satisfying for players. While I like the sound of it, it’s not something I can recall seeing implemented so I may not actually enjoy it in practice.

I've claimed for years that the best exp system in existence in computer games is probably the goal-driven one in Vampire Bloodlines (which is basically a more granular version of a "milestone" exp system):

- you get exp for achieving minor and major objectives, regardless of how you do it
- you aren't actively encouraged to "maximize" exp by exploiting everything that is exploitable (i.e. "I'll pick the pacifist option for the exp and then kill everyone anyway").
- you aren't punished for thinking outside the box (i.e. Deus Ex where you get exp for hacking a PC but none for finding the password and unlocking it).
- you aren't pushed to grind/overuse certain skills to "raise them while using them" (Bethesda style)
- last but not least, the system is flexible enough that you can STILL have optimal solutions that (rightfully) reward the player with more exp than basic ones AND you can also have individual kills that can reward you exp (as long as killing that thing is counted as a minor objective).

That's essentially how I'd like to do it, gain experience through uncovering information. Gain more experience when learning something directly connected with your goal. You could even make it so different characters gain more experience when directly advancing their chosen goal, so if Tav said he's onboard with the creche route, he and Lae'zel will gain a large bonus when getting the map scene, while everyone else just gains experience for learning more about their common goal. Something similar to this happens already with inspiration, but it's a little gimmicky, if fun.

If anyone remembers Neverwinter Nights 2 I think had an optional system where you could get EXP from resolutions not just killing. As I remember it it worked quite well. I think being able to use Skills to intimidate or charm an enemy into seeing things your way while avoiding combat makes the game more interesting, though probably harder to program. Maybe not for mooks but I think if you're dealing with a named opponent and there is a possibility of a peaceful or Skill based solution you should get EXP for it. You should probably get more EXP for it because you aren't going to get any of their equipment/valuables etc.