Originally Posted by Niara
In fact, there is another mechanic that proves they absolutely COULD do system checks (including save-outs) at the end of turns: The irony is that it's another thing they've implemented incorrectly, to the detriment of players!

A barbarian's rage is supposed to end early if they haven't attacked a hostile creature or taken damage since the end of their last turn. This means that a Barbarian's rage doesn't end as long as they are taking damage each round, from any source and at any point in the round, or if they are making opportunity attacks, even if they aren't attacking with their action each of their turn.

(Example)

Barbarian rages and rushes into a breach point, attacking and felling the enemy there, and ends their turn; at initiative 20, they take minor damage from the burning pitch and falling embers that come from being exposed in the open of this particular battlefield. Their turn comes again; they are still raging, but they have a friend to rescue; they wade out into enemy lines, pull the injured person back and use their action to stabilise them, in the safer under cover area, then stand back in the breach, preventing enemies from overwhelming the point. They end their turn, and then proceed to weather the attacks of four or five other foes while the rest of the part scrambles to regroup behind them - they survive this because their rage halves all the incoming damage they take from those attacks. Their turn comes again; the foes are endless, but they only need to hold on another few seconds, before the rogue will have the quest maguffin ready - they take the dodge action, hold the breach and call to the cleric that they could use some help. Next turn, the cleric has given them enough of a shot to survive the attacks - many of them missed thanks to the defensive stance, but the passive damage is still nasty. They disengage from the fight and fall back to the magic circle which then whisks the party and their quest maguffin away just in time.

Now... that's how it should work...

(But in current BG3...)

It goes a little different: Barbarian rages and rushes into a breach point, attacking and felling the enemy there, and ends their turn; at initiative 20, they take minor damage from the burning pitch and falling embers that come from being exposed in the open of this particular battlefield. Their turn comes again; they are still raging, but they have a friend to rescue; they wade out into enemy lines, pull the injured person back and use their action to stabilise them, in the safer under cover area, then stand back in the breach, preventing enemies from overwhelming the point. They end their turn: Their rage immediately ends. They weather the attacks of four or five other foes while the rest of the part scrambles to regroup behind them, they take a hideous pounding because their damage resistance is gone; they only survive using their barbarian hail mary to survive on one hp from a lethal blow. Their turn comes again; the foes are endless, but they only need to hold on another few seconds, before the rogue will have the quest maguffin ready - They Rage again - their last rage for the day - and take the dodge action, holding the breach and calling to the cleric that they could use some help. Again, their rage immediately ends; they go down hard, and enemies begin to make it through to the rest of the party; the cleric tries to get the Barb up, but the already badly injured rouge goes down instead; people are dying, others are unconscious, and the maguffin isn't ready; the party is overwhelmed before they can escape.


Currently, in game, if a barbarian ends their turn without having attack or taken damage on their turn, their rage ends immediately at the end of their turn. This is clearly the game making a check at the end of your turn, and ending an effect based on whether the conditional is met or not - everything required for an end of turn save-out effect. It also means that Barbarians cannot rely on taking damage outside of their turn, or opportunity attacks to keep their rage ticking over, and it means that they immediately lose their damage resistance if they end their turn without attacking.

---I agree with that the mechanics exist to make it an at-the-end-of-the-turn-check. That could be used on other saves as well. Noted in-game there are wepons that make you go mad if you don't rage on every turn.

That aside, I dont know what the rule say specific about this and what they used to say but in our TT plays thru the year we have been rather harsh on what you can and can't do when you rage. RAGE=You get get absolutely mad. All thougt on defensive maneuvers go away. You are going to kill every enemy. Period. If you CHOOSE to save/heal/drag away a comrade when there still are enemies abound, or sort of stand guard against enemies isntead of wading thru them, thats a logical decision and your rage ends. The longer you rage on the harder it gets for you to differentiate enemies from friends and when all enemies are downed you must use a will save (wisdom save) to not attack your friends too. Raging is about letting your logic mind out of the window and Hulk-smash! Taking damage shouldnt even bother us. We are adventurers, we all take damage evertime we meet enmies. Just getting some minor damage every turn shouldnt prolong your rage powers if you dont get to smash-smash-smash. What you describe that Larian has done right now really seems they do it my way. But not all the way because there should be a downtime after your rage ends before you can use it again.

Oh and from the earlier post on splitting hairs about the Sleep spell. You're probably right. I haven't really used the hold person' spell. As a TT player that mainly goes towards other humans and not used in chaotic settings vs all kinds of monster. We all wait for the heavier 'hold monster'. I dont have a problem with the Sleep spell per se even if I think 2 turns (BG3) is a bummer. Its the save-again at wrong time I tried to adress and that goes with several spells. Also the shove-to-stand-up mechanic totally breaks the meaning of the sleep spell.

Thanks for your patience and all the ramblings hehe