Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Siding with Kagha—a story dead end?

Militant Myrlochar, AKA the order of Soul Spiders-militant religious extremist followers of Lolth

Nah, im just not used to "let the Wookie win" ... do you?

I mean, there is not really any reason to make in personal ...
But since we both do the same thing (lets call it "to stand our ground"), i just wonder if you realize that anything you accuse me off, aply to you aswell.

Speaking about excuses ... can you tell us when, or how they find out "about our condition"?

Hint: They dont!

Obviously ...
The point was that we dont know anything about them.

Again you are presuming ...

How do you know this? Oh wait i know the answer ... Minthara, right?
Funny story about her, you gonna love it!
See, when we avoid Goblin camp and reach Grymforge, we receive the "voice of the Absolute" cinematic ... you know wich one i mean, right? That one where she present us her chosen, and Shadowheart rush there to our rescue ... or we instincitvely use her artefact, if we killed her.
Now, after this cinematic, we receive buff "protected from the Absolute" or something simmilar is it called ... and if we free Nere with this buff active on us, Nere say that he "dont hear the Absolute anymore" and we can explain to him that he have tadpole and this all is just big scam ... if however we dont have this buff active, he never mentions anything about that ...
You know where im heading with it?
Oh yes, exactly there ... even if we reach Minthara with this buff on oureself, and with this artefact in our pocket ... Mintahra still claims that she "hear the Absolute" ...
So ... what does that say to us?
Well, maybe nothing ... and maybe, juuuuuuust maybe, it confirms that Minthara is exactly the same as every fanatic from real world who claims to hear the divine voice, while in fact, they simply fulfill their own desires, using divine intervention as an excuse.

And if that is right ...
How exactly do you know that this weird sect, that is kidnapping people who hold some kind of positions of power ...
like Grand Duke from Baldur's Gate, religion leader of Goblin tribe, warchief of that tribe, Drow with clear connections to prominent family from Menzoberranzan (surely you noticed her tatoo), Bigest ugliest strongest Gnoll from a pack (aka alfa leader), or i dunno for example Vampire Spawn from coven of very powerfull Vampire lord, legendary folk-hero, Wizard with experience with really uncommon kind of magic, or litteral general from Hell
... how do you know that this sect, to quote you exactly "want to kill everyone with a different religion"?

Doesnt that seem kinda counterproductive, when they spend so much effort and resources when trying to infiltrate those organisations?
It does to me. :-/

Not at all ...
I say they could believe its a solution to curent problem.

Yeah i bet you have lots of experience around Shadow Druids from DnD lead by Larian writers ... oh wait, thats true ... you cant, since no such thing exists, except for what we both see in Early Acess ...

So our "experience around Shadow Druids" are exactly the same ... what a surprise.

So ... proactive, expansionists, radicals, and killing everyone who is not 100% submited to them ...

[irony] Sounds like great team players to me! I bet they would be thrilled to submit to us imediately. [/irony]
Come on, you cant be serious. :-/

I dont know Shadow Druids from "the original saga" as stated several times in the past, i dint play previous games.

I also dont really see any reason to do so, nor to study what they would do back then, or what kind of people they were.

Larian presented me their Shadow Druids, and those are in this game ... their motivations and goals are clear enough to me to see that what you are proposing here goes completely against this concept. :-/
And that all i need to hope you are wrong and what you propose will not happen. :-/

I dont really understand this sentence at all. :-/

In what matter?
Here ... read this: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=railroading

Soo ...
Deffinitions tells us that railroading is forcing players to do something ...
That would mean that this quest should have only one way to advance ...
Lets see ... what can we do ... we can:
- Kill Zevlor, and let Kagha take over the Grove and seal it ...
- Kill Kagha and help Zevlor stay in the Grove ...
- Redeem Kagha and help Zevlor stay in the Grove ...
- Ignore Kagha and save Halsin ... meaning save Tieflings, but let Kagha corupted ...
- Ignore Kagha and kill Halsin ... meaning save Tieflings, and let Kagha seal the Grove afterwards ...
- Join with Goblins and kill Kagha, Zevlor, Halsin and every single person in the Grove ...
- Join with Goblins and kill Kagha, Zevlor and every single person in the Grove ... but not Halsin (fun stuff this one)
- (And maybe i forget some.)

I mean ... english is not my first language as you probably see, so maybe something slipped me ... but this doesnt really seem like "railroading the only way to advance in the story" to me.

Yeah, sadly (or luckily depending on your prefferenes) nobody so far created AI that would be creating story as we go trough it ... it have to be prepared in advance, some limitations therefore are inevidable.

I get you are pissed bcs you expected result that didnt come, but that doesnt make it railroad ... if anything it only prooves that your expectations were wrong. :-/

Sure it have ...
You are perfectly able to play exactly the way you want ... no matter your alignment or intentions ... the only thing you dont get is outcome you wanted, but that is just how it is in every story!
You only control your character (well, your party in this game), but you dont pick how should others respond on your actions.

And if you really, and i mean REALLY, wants to help Shadow Druids to fulfill their plans and intentions ... that path is in game aswell (it was described abowe)!

But i see what you want, you want to join faction that is not supposed to be joinable ... its not supposed to ... deal with it.

Indeed ... but its also not a real state, its just your own explanation for not geting your own fantasy fulfilled. :-/

/shrug
Im honest ... thats all im able or willing to say to persuate you. Take from it whatever you want.

Also ... i noticed you ignored my question ... let me repeat it for you:

The Shadow Circle




The druidic order tolerates a wide range of philosophies under the umbrella of its loosely organized structure. The variety of different branches demonstrates this scope. So does the existence of the Shadow Circle.

A secret society of druids within the larger druidic order, the Shadow Circle accepts members who see Nature as a hostile, cleansing force that ensures the survival of the fittest. According to their philosophy, civilization--especially the building of towns and cities--has weakened humankind and many demihuman races.




Methods



The Shadow Circle sees barbarian humans and more primitive races as inherently more vital than civilized peoples. Thus, the Shadow Circle often allies itself with barbarian tribes or hostile humanoids such as orcs, giants, and goblins, especially those who choose to live in forests or mountains in the wilds. They deliberately encourage people to abandon civilization's "decadence" and return to the more natural existence of hunting and gathering.

But while their intentions are neutral, the methods of Shadow Circle members tend to promote chaos and evil. They behave as they do not due to an evil nature--their enemies include powerful evil empires as well as good kingdoms. Rather, they feel their cruel activities work toward the best interests of evolution and of Nature itself. For instance, the Shadow Circle may provide magical assistance to barbarian hordes trying to sack a city or lead humanoid tribes in raids against human or dwarven towns.

Sometimes the Shadow Circle even assists the cause of good. For instance, members would consider an evil city-state based around slavery a fair target, and they would feel as eager as any lawful good paladin to support a slave revolt in the hopes of toppling the city. The difference? The Shadow Circle would encourage the slaves in revolt to burn the city to the ground and then settle down as farmers, hunters, or outlaws in the countryside.

Lower-ranking members of the Shadow Circle often wage campaigns of terror against small settlements, usually working behind the scenes. Their favorite puppets are intelligent monsters like evil lycanthropes.




Membership



The members of the Shadow Circle keep their allegiance secret from other druids while maintaining their parallel "circle" rankings. An archdruid in the Shadow Circle is also an archdruid in a mainstream circle, for example. Shadow Circle druids of 11th level or higher follow the normal druidic practice of advancing in level through the challenge; in fact, Shadow Circle druids encourage each other to challenge nonmembers in mainstream circle hierarchy, thereby increasing their number among inner circle members. These duels almost invariably turn quite bloody.

An arc of the Shadow Circle exists in any domain where druids live, and its members may come from any druidic branch. Typically only one in five initiates--but as many as one in three 12th-level or higher druids--secretly belongs to the Shadow Circle. A great druid usually is not a member, but one never can tell for sure. In some troubled domains--particularly those in which druids face persecution and the wilderness displays signs of wanton destruction from human cities--most of the druids may join the Shadow Circle!

Shadow Circle druids adopt secret names to conceal their identities from each other. When they meet, they do so while shapechanged or wearing masks carved to represent predators native to the domain. This secrecy is important. Although the Shadow Circle ethos corresponds to that of the Order, most druids disdain the group's methods--and therefore, its members.

A known Shadow Circle initiate faces the enmity of other druids--and possibly the ban, for refusing to recant--as well as the ire of local authorities. Lower-level druids constantly challenge exposed Shadow Circle druids 12th level and higher, seeking to depose--and possibly destroy--offenders.

In turn, the Shadow Circle often tries to cause trouble within the druidic order. For instance, in order to recruit disaffected druids into their midst, group members covertly encourage rivalry between druidic branches (such as the jealousy between the dominant forest druids and the members of less influential branches). Characters may learn of the Shadow Circle when they discover a plot to ferment such trouble between druids from rival branches.

Note that these are the methods of a group of extremist druids, not evil ones. Their anti-civilization feelings do not alter their neutral alignment.

Shadowmaster. The highest-level druid in the Shadow Circle--usually an archdruid or druid--takes command of the group as the Shadowmaster. If two or more druids of equal level seek the post, they generally duel to the death, though one combatant--usually the younger--could agree to serve under the other. Unlike the semiautonomous mainstream circles, the Shadow Circle maintains strict discipline over its various far-flung arcs. The Shadowmaster exercises absolute authority over the membership.

Inner Circle. Under the Shadowmaster are the members of the inner circle, which consists of all the druidic order's Shadow Circle druids (12th level) and archdruids (13th level). (The Shadowmaster remains apart from the inner circle.) Together, the Shadowmaster and the inner circle make policy and direct the initiates. Only the Shadowmaster knows the real names of members of the inner circle--the identities of even these high-ranking members remain unknown to each other.

The 1st- through 10th-level initiates within this secret society, unlike the more independent initiates of mainstream circles, are expected to obey all orders from inner circle members and the Shadowmaster. Failure means punishment--death.

Shadowed Ones. Initiates who have reached 11th level have special status in the Shadow Circle. These initiates are known as "Shadowed Ones," the Shadowmaster's special tools. In particular, they act as enforcers and assassins for the secret group, hunting those who have disobeyed their fearsome leader or have been expelled from the mysterious society. The Shadowmaster sometimes encourages Shadowed Ones to serve as ambassadors to arcs of the Shadow Circle operating in other domains. Shadowed Ones automatically advance to the inner circle in this secret group when they achieve 12th level in their mainstream circle.




Shadowclave



Members of the Shadow Circle work in secret, pretending to be mainstream druids. For example, they attend all druidic moots. But every season each arc of the Shadow Circle also holds its own secret meeting--the Shadowclave--in the dark of the moon. The meeting lasts three nights, during which the membership celebrates its own version of traditional druidic ceremonies and receives new orders from the Shadowmaster and inner circle. Prisoners the Shadow Circle has taken throughout the season--along with disloyal or disobedient members--are kept alive until the Shadowclave. There, the inner circle tortures and publicly executes them, to remind the membership of what happens to traitors and enemies of the Shadow Circle.




Recruitment



The Shadow Circle does not take volunteers--it finds new members on its own. Recruitment, by invitation only, is in the hands of the Shadowmaster and the inner circle, always on the lookout for druids who seem ready to embrace the ruthless Shadow Circle philosophy.

For example, if a druid massacres a party of travelers who ventured into a sacred grove, the Shadow Circle soon comes looking for this prospective candidate. Another good possibility is a character who has destroyed a village whose peasants dared to clear a wood for use as farmland.

A Shadowed One spies on the potential member for a few weeks or months, often using animal spies as additional eyes. If the druid's deeds and words seem in sympathy with the Shadow Circle's goals, the character receives a visit from this Shadowed One (or a pair for a candidate 11th level or higher) before the next Shadowclave. The Shadowed One explains the group's purposes, inviting the newcomer to join. Of course, druids who refuse--or even waver--coincidentally turn up dead shortly thereafter.

Candidates who agree to join are blindfolded, given a mask, and taken to the Shadowclave. There the Shadowmaster gives each a secret name. After receiving their sworn allegiance, the Shadowmaster formally welcomes the new members into the Shadow Circle and commands them to perform some symbolic but dangerous task to prove their ruthlessness and dedication. (The difficulty of the assignment depends on the character's experience level.)

This kind of mission usually involves assassinating a specific enemy of the Shadow Circle, such as a noble or priest in a city the group has targeted for destruction. However, the task might be physically much simpler-- say, poisoning a town well. The Shadowed One who recruited the druid will follow along (secretly), ready to slay a newcomer who shows weakness, risks capture, or tries to betray the group. Those who succeed, the Shadow Circle embraces as full members.