Yay! Someone actually used my Gale videos! 🤗😝
Thank you for making them!
All good ^.^ this is friendly and I think we're going to keep seeing the situation differently, but that's okay. Even if I'm wrong (and I may be, when the full game comes out).... I'll stand by the way I feel about these particular things, and blame Larian for what I will most likely call poor writing <.< >.>
Agreed - it's a friendly exchange
Like you I have many critiques of Larian but I've been pretty pleased by the quality of the writing.
We'll know once the game comes out.
But he didn't say that... YOU put those words in his mouth; they don't exist except in your interpretation.
True enough - that my interpretation. Perhaps our differences in interpretation spring from this source: I buy his arrogance and bravado but don't I buy his awkwardness. The 'awkwardness' strikes me as a mask for something more sinister.
That's all there is to it; my self worth is not called into question by this. I know that I'm doing as much as I can, or as much as I feel I wish to – nothing they say on the other end has any impact on that, for me.
In the end, neither is mine. But I feel the tug and it annoys me. And I've just spent lots of time thinking about how humans manipulate each other so I'm primed to pick on that.
Note how quick he is to threaten your self conception as a good person (timestamp 26:17)
I'm curious about this... I watched the section from 26-29, where he's told you that he needs to eat powerful weave strands, by way of artefacts, and you're questioning him on the topic. Nowhere during that did I feel him calling into question my value or self-worth as a person, or casting shade on my goodness as a person
It's in the framing itself. He just cooked dinner - when people give you things or do things for you feel like reciprocating. You are putatively having this discussion because he sees you as good person. You helped that child, etc and etc. But that's false. The fact that he asks you after you say no makes it clear he could be having this conversation with anyone (including Raphel if he thought he could outsmart him). You are kindly disposed towards him and see the secured promise as security blanket whereas I'm not kindly disposed and see it as a sign of his manipulative nature. Again, he would make the ask of anyone but he tells you he chose to provisionally "trust" you because of your good nature because that's the best way to manipulate someone who wants to think of themselves as good.
it was just a question and answer session where he gave honest, but reticent and short answers about his condition and his needs
"wouldn't want to make you into a oathbreaker"
"I know the allure . . ."
Once again - we'll see but I rather suspect that his answers are not truthful. I think he went looking for the shadow weave and found it - but found out that Shar is not a kind mistress.
And it does comes back to my attitude towards Gale. Where you see reticence I see artifice - he's peeling the veils away slowly to keep us interested. Granted I am making inferences from vocal tone, body language and facial expression - which, while they were modeled by a real actor, it's possible that I'm being influenced by the uncanny nature of the experience.
Okay, that's fine – but please do keep on the look out for others; it will save my life, and faerun is full of them – though they're usually protected (again; up front telling you that there will be danger, most likely, in trying to acquire more, not escalating to that risk after the fact). What part of this exchange, to your perspective, is him casting shade on your status as a good person?
The threat to status comes earlier and later in the extraction of the promise (a good girl would blindly agree) and the "oathbreaker line"
But the threat to status just a bit later - the only reason you would say no is that you want to keep an item for it's power.
He denotes the value points that they would otherwise hold for him
1) he doesn't say for him - that would be less manipulative if he did. He says he knows the allure of the objects.
2) he's telling you why you might not agree - because you want to hold onto power. Not, say, I don't want to slaughter the grove. Or destroy one of Selune's sacred objects or destroy one of Tyr's holy artifacts
Hello? Gale? Being seduced by power is your thing - stop projecting thankyouverymuch.
Perhaps if we put it in a modern form you could see it through my eyes?
"
My cancer can only be cured if you burn famous works of art and allow me to swallow the ashes. I understand why you wouldn't want burn the Mona Lisa - believe me, I know how much money you could get for that painting on the black market. And understand the prestige that come from in owning such an item. Besides, stealing it could be quite dangerous. "Wait - if I say "no" I'm doing so because i want to make money or gain prestige!? What kind of person chooses to let someone die of cancer for the sake of money or prestige?
Notably Gale only refers to their value and power and not " power, history and magic " (timestamp 27:25) - again, the addition of "history" would be considerably less manipulative. [1]
Well, you can also sacrifice him to Booaal.
Now
you're trying to manipulate me into taking him again
Yes – If he runs out of options, and no-one is willing to help him, he assesses what his choices are, and he chooses – unsurprisingly to me – the one that endangers ONLY himself, and his immortal soul, and no-one else.
The option that would do that would be die in the Anauroch desert away from everyone. Or to die inside a troll mound or some other monster maker. Once's he belongs the Raphel he will endanger many others.
What would you, as a good and honest person, do in his position: you've got a ticking clock that will devastate a huge area and kill countless people, your companions have in their possession, but have refused you the tools you need to keep this danger at bay, and now you can feel your time is running dangerously low. Your goddess is not listening, your normal magical powers are reduced, and you're a long way from a major magical hub, with no way to get to one quickly. You know quite a lot about fiends and their interactions, and you know how devil contracts work, and you know one is watching you particularly right now; you don't know if you can beat one at its own game, but you know it's possible for the clever, and you believe you are very clever. What do you do? Clock's ticking. What does a good person, who cares about the lives, souls and rights of others, do, here?
Try to make it as far away from people as possible. And hope that I wouldn't be so self deceived to think that selling my soul to a devil wouldn't the first of many evil acts committed at the behest of my new master. Use a fly spell to get into the air? Sell every thing I own for a teleport scroll? Gale's decision to get anywhere near a city is incredibly selfish.
I do think the expressions of love Gale has for Mystra are interesting. But I don't think that they are indications that he's still acting like a good a chosen, they strike more like the man mourning the end of a relationship with the wife he cheated on. The mystra weave scene it a bit like a scene where 21st century gale is showing the new girlfriend the photos of his children. It gives me the creeps - it strikes me like a "you would look lovely in one her dresses" scene.
So very, very creepy - which is to say I think it's well written. Sorry, not sorry.
thanks for detailed reply
[1] my silly example also requires that you believe that famous painting dust can cure my condition even though I won't tell you why
