Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General What Companion don't you Trust?

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Possibly, yes. Lots of lots in steps in the scenario and only one step in "Gale explodes taking out the entire city". Right? Depends how the DM plays it I guess - I was imagining it playing out the way it did in my introductory teaser. If instead its the four of us reach an secret illithid lair? That could be trouble.



Not fine but scale matters right? Even if both are horrible we can make a distinction between a small bomb and a tactical nuke?

But I'll be honest - I thought Lae'zel had the better argument when she came for me with the sword so my Tav has dirty hands as well. Not that she's thoroughly repugnant like Gale but not as pure as the driven snow either.


Agreed. And we're back to the starting point - the color of the glasses you wear depends on your view of Gale. He seems dishonest and I find it harder to believe he's telling the truth than to believe he's lying.

I doubt he was picked up right away - otherwise how did he become such an expert in things like explosions and other things related to his condition - but I also suspect he was targeted. Gale for the shadow weave + chosen status, Shadowheart for her corrupted chosen status, Wyll for his connection to a Cambion. That leaves the other two as random grabs . . .



Just goes to show you that even the worst person can have good qualities. Gale, for example, is a good sacrifice to Booal

i think we should brand astarion the absolute mark... :thumb up:



the dark magic shard -- a little shard of kasus's forbidden spell when kasus was doing kasus folly

the dark shard can eat an evil magic shard such as "necromancy of the they", i can not image the true power of the dark shard.

oen thing, we assume gale's talking are the truth for the dark shard -- it will explode if the dark shard doesn't eat regularly.

but, it could be possible that gale lies to us, the dark shard just changes its host, the result just cause gale's dead, since the dark shard has its own will, the dark shard know how to grow and protect itself.

and further to think, the polyhedron that shadowheart holds, might be the nemesis of the dark shard.

This one is confirmed at least - If you leave him dead for three days, it explodes and gives you an automatic game over.

I'd be interested in forcing the lament configuration into Gale's possession (Pick up only Shadow and Gale, kill your character, kill shadow, then have gale search her body - the configuration will bind itself to Gale. I've not actually done this specifically with him yet), just to see. I suspect they'll not interact, sadly, but it would be interesting.

Regarding Necromancy of Thay - the way the text is written for your examining of it strongly implies that it has much more powerful magic to bestow, if you were of a higher level and greater spellcasting capability... but that because you are not, it all slips through your fingers and is lost. My plan, for one file at least, is to keep the book and not let anyone have or examine it, until I have access to 5th level spells (where a lot of our strong necromancy spells come in) at least.

I’m curious to know how what'll happen if Gale tries to eat the artefact

I’m surprised I never thought of that before

Interesting takes on Gale, folks. This thread has made me give more weight to his flaws, and I’d agree he’s proud, selfish, spoiled, overconfident, greedy for magical power and willing to take large risks that could have terrible consequences. And while somewhat chastened when we meet him, he doesn’t appear to have completely learned his lesson. It does feel plausible that these flaws, not to mention the ball of evil in his chest, could lead - or even have led - him down dark paths in certain playthoughs. But he’s also funny, open-minded, tolerant, passionate about sharing knowledge and against hurting others for his own selfish ends. I remain convinced that with the right people around him (or the right player controlling him ) he can come good.

And perhaps I’m terminally naive but, while his chat-up lines are cringeworthy and it’s definitely not a good choice on his part to sleep with the PC before telling them his story, I’m still not able to see him as a sexual predator, contra KR’s suggestion. He’ll only spend the night with a PC who has actively shown an interest, no matter how much he likes them, and getting him to do so in EA involves fast-forwarding by repeated resting. In fact, if anyone is giving me professor-who-sleeps-with-students vibes, it’s Mystra. That’s why I’m inclined to cut Gale some slack regarding how he reacted after the end of their affair, when normally continuing to pursue someone who has signalled they’re no longer interested would be a red flag for me. He was a young man who worshipped her and everything she stood for, and you’d have thought she’d have known better.

And despite reading KR’s arguments with interest, I still find it impossible to think of him as manipulative. Perhaps that just means he’s good at it, or I’m a sucker, but while I can understand a reading of the deer stew scene as a manipulation, but it feels too clumsy to be that of a practiced player. And I think for it to be a character flaw there needs to be a pattern of such behaviour, whereas most often he will either tell the truth or at least refuse to tell an untruth when weasel words would serve him better. And once you’ve helped him stabilise his condition and he has come clean (as far as we know), if the PC judges at that point that he didn’t deserve the trust he was given and asks him to leave, he will go without argument or complaint.

Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing how his story plays out in the full release.

And in the meantime, Shadowheart is still topping my least trusted list. I definitely do get manipulative vibes from her, though she’s not yet had to use her skills to get something from me that I don’t want to part with. I do hope she doesn’t turn out to be another Chosen of any deity though, as one is plenty. I can see why folk think she might be, and obviously it makes sense to expect some jiggery-pokery with her missing memories, but my fingers are crossed that she is just a “regular” cleric of Shar, albeit one who might have been kidnapped from a Selunite village as a youngster and brainwashed, possibly with the help of some memory spells to wipe out the fact that the Sharrans killed her family.

The thing is, all our origin characters should conceivably be at the beginning of a character arc that will bend to the influence of our play through

We can’t say Gale is completely anything right now because so little has happened to influence him or tell us where he is in his arc

I have been reading this thread and have enjoyed the discussion immensely. I too did not trust Gale at first, because he seemed subtly manipulative. However, I did a play-through where I never used wisdom checks or charisma or tadpole on anyone in my crew to let their stories unfold a bit slower. Ie…to not force their stories from them with the power of my personality/rolls.

I found that playthru to be incredibly satisfying. First, I liked all my companions alot more. It seemed like we were all in the mess together. As an example , the slower unfolding of Gale’s story that came with just respecting his privacy? It was loads better and gave me a much deeper level of trust with him after his reveal. The vulnerability when he finally explains all his shadiness felt so much more genuine. I can’t recall the specifics now…but it did seem like the pacing was much better. His desire to keep his condition secret felt alot more justified.

He just came across as a rather lonely dude who screwed up alot in his foolish younger years and knows it now…and is just doing his best not to explode and make it all worse.

This approach made me view them all (my party) more as vulnerable flawed beings rather than outright deceivers (because I never “aha’d them, I guess). I enjoyed the playthru alot!

I think when the full game releases, I am going to play it once completely thru this way. Ie, a simple adventurer who does not push or wheedle for private info from my traveling companions. I’ll wait until they trust me (or…gulp…kill me) instead of trying to “game” them. Curious to see how that all plays out!

That's a good idea and definitely worth a try.

I wonder what the consequences of reading this book are for our character (or for Gale or Astarion).
And if we give the book to a companion, do they automatically succeed or fail their wisdom saving throws when they are trying to read it?



I hope so, too. It would be nice if a companion's character arc could go in different directions, influenced by our interactions and decisions.

The potential for them should be there, I think, else we wouldn't have in-depth discussions about these characters, with valid arguments from different sides.

Interesting. I guess when I'm thinking about pattern I see from the author the cringeworthy / hamhanded nature of the manipulation is intentional just like Wyll's attempts to explain away his conversation with Mizora is a bit comic

We can either attribute the cringe to Gale's social awkwardness or a signal that something is wrong. As the very entertaining conversation between Niara and I demonstrated whether or not you think something is wrong depends on your reaction to things like cooking dinner for someone, buttering them up with compliments and then asking for a favor. If this seems like normal behavior between friends you are more likely to attribute it awkwardness but if you think that's just not a good way to treat another human you see something sinister.

At the risk of beating a dead horse - one the reasons I trust SH a bit more is that Gale says "I need you to trust me" and then he to show that he does not, in fact, trust Tav. You can call that a security blanket or a lack of trust - I'm convinced it's the latter. Shadowheart, OTH, telegraphs that she doesn't trust anyone and blind trust is foolish *but* that you must trust each other because you are in same situation. I provisionally trust her in any situation that doesn't involve Sharrans. But if one her superiors showed up? That kiss won't prevent her from siding with her clergy (at this point)

A bit more on Gale the soon to be Sharran and the Shadow Weave (all 3.5)

This is known

When a mage first discovers the shadow weave and attunes to it they lose 2 wisdom points. These ability score points can only restored by a cleric of Shar and are typically only restored after the mage completes a Sharran quest.

This is speculation

When Gale first meets Shadowheart he comments on her dark eyes - now it possible to read this as Gale being a lech but I think it's more likely that someone had told him to look out for a Sharran who fits her description.

Perhaps finding the orb (mythallar?) was the quest and he now needs a Sharran to restore the lost ability points? But asking for that would reveal his true nature to the group.

i think this is not necessary. because when you only can use 2nd level spells, you acturally can learn the 3rd level spell for free without use a spell slot.

this is, you can use the book immeditately.

i suppose this book will have its continuing story.

i think the sense of disobedience of gale is the first time meet.
if you are a mage or a sorcerer, you will find his abnormal.

gale cann't sense you are a mage or a sorcerer, this is very abnormal. but gale can sense shadowheart as shar's believer, and he pursues shadowheart in their dialogs imply, but shadowheart is alert to him.
gale -- "we don't know when is the end of our lives, i should grasp evey opportunity that i can hold..."
shadowheart -- "the higher the expectation, the greater the disappointment."

i think he is willing to reveal mystra ban his power from magic weave, this is a strategy to let you lift your suspect.

after the first time meet, his suspect is discrete and fleeting, even he reveals the partial truth to reduce your suspect.

gather the discrete plots of gale, as following :

gale wants to become a god -- from karsus folly

gale gains a book sealed mythallar
(open/keep sealed) ? gale has the autonomy.
(open)gale absorbs the mythallar (for becoming a god).
(try to control the mythallar)the mythallar KO gale and controls gale.
then mystra abandons gale and ban him use the advanced magic weave.

gale beautifies the above behaviors, he describes that this is for loving mystra, do you believe?
i think gale's purpose is to become a god, and more than this, gale's thought reveal on the magic mirror, you can have a look the following :

Silver/ was so kind as to link the screenshots in another thread:

Major spoiler:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jppkbd/companions_at_the_magic_mirror/

yes, you are right.

I hope it does. One thing that worries me however is that when you use the sorcerer options and succeed in calming down the spirits in this book, the narrator says 'the heavy cover thumps shut with a strange finality".

It would be quite frustrating if the book would really become useless in this case, I hope more interactions with the tome are still possible at a later point in time even if we have chosen these options. Maybe the book just takes a break

But when we read the book turning page by page, and succeed all wisdom saving throws, I don't think it is even necessary to open the book again in the future to unlock its secrets :
The narrator says that


So for better or worse, it seems we have already sealed the deal.
I am curious as to what the consequences will be in the future.

From all the info we have so far and, my personal opinion, my list is:

Shadowheart: I feel she's with you only if you didn't go in her way. The moment we have to face the Shar fanatics or do something that it's against her "religion" she'll turn against us.
Wyll: He's too generic "hero" with a dark secret that it will bite him in the ass and probably make him turn against us by the succubus he serves.
Gale: Another generic "good" guy that it's a power hungry egomaniac, if some choice is given between a huge power and us, he will turn against us I bet.

I think the "good" ones in the end will be:
Laezel: she's the tough one trying to prove herself not wanting help, but I feel that all her loyalty for her queen and her people will be changed by a dramatic moment in the future making her question all her life decisions and in the end she will soften up and be our BFF giving her life to us and turning her back to a corrupted queen and her followers.
Astarion: The typical "bad" guy that most people think is a monster but in the end he'll prove to all that he's more than a thirsty vampire wanting to pray on people for blood.

i recall one thing, that can prove my argument about gale's ambition as karsus.

that is the official introduces gale :
you can help him push the dark shard back to the astral world.
or help him ruin many worlds.

the dark shard is from karsus folly's spell, this little, but i see it as the essence of the karsus folly forbidden spell.
the interesting thing is, the explosive power of the dark shard nowadays only can destroy a little area such as waterdeep. the eventually the power can ruin the worlds due to the dark shard can grow via devouring other magic shards, even far more than our knowledge now.

the purpose that gale absorbs the dark magic shard, not only for becoming a god -- the power thirsty that makes him desire to devour magic weave, but also for dominating mystra.

Silver/ was so kind as to link the screenshots in another thread:

Major spoiler:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/jppkbd/companions_at_the_magic_mirror/

remember gale said -- "i am not going to replace mystra as karsus folly, my action is for 'loving mystra' , i call my action-- gale's folly."

yes, gale's talking shows his truth. gale does not want to destroy mystra, gale's ambition is more than karsus' ambition.
gale's ambition is that "overhead" mystra and dominates mystra.

i wonder if i should give astarion the book or i should read the book myself ?

since my five origin character, gale and wyll could be very unreliable, astarion is wobbly.

the book is a bit precious for my player character. invest astarion?

I'm a Drow - I don't trust anybody.
The companions are useful minions for the time being.
BTW - I killed the Elf on sight, Lollth be Blessed!

Realized very recently that Gale’s bark when clicked upon is quite a rude thing to say. “Charmed, I’m sure” means “Nice to meet you, probably.” He’s insulting you to your face because he thinks you’re too dumb to catch on. (Took me more than 2 years to notice, so he may not be wrong in my case…) Credit to Larian: Capturing his condescension in three words is excellent writing.

"Charmed, I'm sure" is not an insult; it's a form of cordial greeting towards someone whom you do not know well but wish to be polite to; it is formal, elegant and gracious in traditional form.

In some modern media it has come to be treated as innately sarcastic and mistrustful, but that is not its actual meaning or original use.

I mean, BG3 is a modern piece of media. So what did writers/directors at Larian intend: for it to be polite or condescending? I could see either fitting with Gale's nice but arrogant personality...