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journeyman
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OP
journeyman
Joined: Oct 2020
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The Hag is part of nature. She is part of the Dark Feywild. Yes, she is a predator, and predators seek prey, always. They seek the weakest in the specifies to prey on always, like all predators do. That prey just happens to be us so we label it evil.
Yet if you are strong, wise, and diplomatic you can coexist with the Hag just fine. The Gur do it because they pass around the wisdom of such things. The Gur are not evil. The hag clearly isn't part of the nature, she is evil twisted creature, interfering in natural cycles. This kind of hag doesn't protect the forest, but only deform it to her perverted desires. Additionally when role playing a ranger it's clearly pointed out in the dialog option that she must die because of her unnatural and destructive actions Found an interesting story in https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Green_hag : There was known to be a unique creation myth in regards to the green hags, one that stood out given that it was told by dozens of races with little change. Most commonly referred to as Green Mary, but known by elves as Kiersana the Unfaithful and to orcs as Grigga Toegnawer, her story sent shivers down the spines of the children of all races. Once upon a time, there was a beautiful druid of the woodlands known as Green Mary who protected the hundreds of miles of wilderness that was her domain. She dwelt in the heart of the forest worshiping nature spirits and upholding their ancient laws in a symbiotic relationship of servitude and protection with the wildlife, until one day a powerful hunter arrived. He chopped down trees to make weapons in order to hunt the animals for sport, and the whispers of the forest sought vengeance against him for his recklessness, yet both Mary and the hunter became enraptured by each other's beauty, leading her to disobey its commands.
The following morning, Mary awoke to find that as punishment, the forest had warped her form into something more resembling the forest she was meant to be protecting, leading her to fearfully and repentantly slay her horrified lover, leaving not even a drop of his blood to stain the earth. Yet despite her penance, nature showed its merciless side to Mary and left her in her disfigured and self-loathing state, leading her to flee into the most fetid fen of the forest in misery. Thus, Green Mary became the first green hag, a creature that lusted after humanoids while craving their destruction and whose dalliances with the civilized world at the protest of nature made her a pariah of the latter and the archenemy of the former. Funny thing is, from a constructivist perspective, the hags are either the romanticized ancient druids or the representatives of animism. And here it is, this story of Green Mary, reinforcing the conclusion of the observation via this mentioned perspective. Meanwhile, the scripted dialogue option you mentioned is, if not an early access bug, a sole construction among the DnD settings. Does it make sense? Yes. Was it a sufficient testimony to make the final judgement? Not necessarily be.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2020
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The story you reference, while cool, outright identifies Green Mary and by extension all green hags as a pariah of nature. By definition not really a representative part of nature.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2021
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The Hag is part of nature. She is part of the Dark Feywild. Yes, she is a predator, and predators seek prey, always. They seek the weakest in the specifies to prey on always, like all predators do. That prey just happens to be us so we label it evil.
Yet if you are strong, wise, and diplomatic you can coexist with the Hag just fine. The Gur do it because they pass around the wisdom of such things. The Gur are not evil. The hag clearly isn't part of the nature, she is evil twisted creature, interfering in natural cycles. How is she interfering in natural cycles? Is decay not part of nature? Is conflict and death not part of nature? So - everyone is of course familiar with the Cordyceps fungus - which infects and takes over insect host bodies and then takes control of them. What most people don't know is that Cordyceps doesn't actually pass the brain/blood barrier, so the insect brain is unaffected and fully aware of what is going on. It simply takes over the rest of the body directly. Horrific but natural. However there is a even more disturbing fungus called Massospora. Massospora infects Cicadas and replaces their genitals with spores, it then hypersexualizes them so it tries to "mate" with and pass on the infection to other Cicadas. Nature is brutal. Based on this information, how is the hag unnatural? This kind of hag doesn't protect the forest, but only deform it to her perverted desires What do humans and dwarves do to forests? Do we not pervert and destroy them to fulfill our desires? Do we not pollute them? How is the Hag different? What actions does she take specifically that are different than this? Also Hags usually live in swamps, which are important ecosystems.
Blackheifer
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2020
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What do humans and dwarves do to forests? Do we not pervert and destroy them to fulfill our desires? Do we not pollute them? How is the Hag different? What actions does she take specifically that are different than this?
Also Hags usually live in swamps, which are important ecosystems. By that logic, humans and dwarves are also equally part of nature. Humans and dwarves can be evil, and so it's reasonable to judge her by the same standard you'd use to judge a human or a dwarf. And either of them acting like the hag would probably be considered a serial killer. Firmly chaotic evil.
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veteran
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veteran
Joined: Mar 2021
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What do humans and dwarves do to forests? Do we not pervert and destroy them to fulfill our desires? Do we not pollute them? How is the Hag different? What actions does she take specifically that are different than this?
Also Hags usually live in swamps, which are important ecosystems. By that logic, humans and dwarves are also equally part of nature. Humans and dwarves can be evil, and so it's reasonable to judge her by the same standard you'd use to judge a human or a dwarf. And either of them acting like the hag would probably be considered a serial killer. Firmly chaotic evil. Well Green Hags are Neutral Evil, which isn't something I was arguing. Humans/dwarves are of course part of nature. I wasn't arguing that either. I was simply refuting that Hags are not part of nature and challenging Bardhuk to show how hags were NOT part of nature and how they disrupt natural cycles.
Blackheifer
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2017
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Wether the hag is part of nature depends on the definition. For me in our world all is part of nature, the humans are not excluded. I don't like how the "super-human/elven/dwarven/..." world of the Forgotten Realms is constructed in DnD, it often does not make sense, but it is a given. If we take it, the hag is part of nature because she exists.
But that all is part of nature is not an argument that all has to be accepted. You can support a lot of world theories and ideologies just by changing the point of view. So it's a philosophic question. I tend to refer to an utilitaristic view here, I think the world for the most is better with Ethel removed. That would be a bit inconsequent in our world because Mayrina, whom I try to help all the time, violates the principles of a developed Utilitarism. But in the FR it seems to be possible to revive the dead, so Mayrina is not acting that strange.
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addict
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addict
Joined: Sep 2022
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Hags don’t originate from prime material plane, they’re extra planar in origin; mostly fey which is tenuously linked, or fiendish which is not.
They’re interloping alpha-predators without a natural predator and deadly parasitic reproducers.
If you expand definition of natural too much, you lose definition. But that misses the point anyway; DND creatures are beings of story to suit heroic fantasy.
Now that said, unique hag origin story can upend this, but that’s exception proving the rule.
Imo, magically created owlbears which nonetheless fit into natural order should give Druids pause to think. Hags shouldn’t.
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apprentice
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apprentice
Joined: Feb 2023
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I was simply refuting that Hags are not part of nature and challenging Bardhuk to show how hags were NOT part of nature and how they disrupt natural cycles. Well, my argument mainly came from specific for ranger reply to auntie after she surrenders to you and asking to spare her life. I didn't read the lore about hags before, and maybe you're right about them
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