The law of diminishing returns needs to apply to jumping distance.
If there will be no standing vs running jump rule, moderation must be achieved another way.
Current calculation: 3 + strenght modifier
Suggestion: 4 + half your strength modifier
14 strength equals 4 + 1 = 5 feet
18 strength: 4 + 2 = 6 feet
Up to:
24 strenght = 4 + 6 = 10 feet
Thereafter, further gains are divided by three. Standing Jump distance maxes at 11 feet/30 strenght. This is slightly below the world record. Higher than the world record would be for jumping in armour + carrying an inventory worth of items.
By my calculations, inventory weight subtracting only one foot is generous. All characters could get an extra foot of jumping distance for carrying below x kg (x depending on strenght). Could be equal to strength modifier.
As is, any enemy with strength approaching 30 will zoom over the map, and strenght player characters may as well grow wings. Jumping isn't weightlifting. A supremely strong character (24) having twice the jumping capability of a fit character (14) is extreme enough.
The problem I see with fooling with how jump works after the fact is Larian's design of the game's environments. For some reason, Larian wants us to jump up even pitifully small elevations as opposed to climbing or levering ourselves up said incline. I'm not sure what the point of this is, but it's there nevertheless. Are there any critical paths in the game that require jumps of at least ten feet? Since any creature, regardless of strength, can make a ten foot jump.
Though I have noticed, in some cases, that Gale can make jumps he can't normally make in 'follow mode'.
Though I have noticed, in some cases, that Gale can make jumps he can't normally make in 'follow mode'.
This is a strange chapter in itself. All my custom chars basically have a strength of 12, but my female char often still can't jump as far as the other male chars in my party, BUT then when I jump ahead with the other chars, she can suddenly jump after them....
In the case of Gale with his strength of 8. He has a shorter jumping distance than Lae'zel, but it would be annoying to stop every time because someone can't find the right way to jump in this case and follow the other chars. It seems like a kind of intentional peer pressure for the pathing?
Though I have noticed, in some cases, that Gale can make jumps he can't normally make in 'follow mode'.
This is a strange chapter in itself. All my custom chars basically have a strength of 12, but my female char often still can't jump as far as the other male chars in my party, BUT then when I jump ahead with the other chars, she can suddenly jump after them....
In the case of Gale with his strength of 8. He has a shorter jumping distance than Lae'zel, but it would be annoying to stop every time because someone can't find the right way to jump in this case and follow the other chars. It seems like a kind of intentional peer pressure for the pathing?
Yeah, I imagine they did it to minimize frustration during exploration. Given that this is present, it might be possible to tweak jumping in a manner where difficult terrain and other stationary effects aren't trivialized.
This is a strange chapter in itself. All my custom chars basically have a strength of 12, but my female char often still can't jump as far as the other male chars in my party, BUT then when I jump ahead with the other chars, she can suddenly jump after them....
Yes, following seems to extend character’s jump capability to some extend.
Edit: yeah, one would need to figure out first, what is the minimal jump distance necessary to not make Larian levels too tedious. Forge comes to mind as one area already relying heavily on jump.
Theoretically, requiring use of spells like long jump or fly to reach harder to reach areas should be fine as long as those spells Last for long enough. However, if those spells would become a requirement for the whole party to progress or would need to be used too often, that would be annoying.
If all else fails, they're going to need different rules for combat (standing jump) and exploration (long jump).
It annoys me particularly that you can't say "run over there and then jump". It's run over there. Now jump. Automated long jump in exploration would put an end to that.
It annoys me particularly that you can't say "run over there and then jump". It's run over there. Now jump. Automated long jump in exploration would put an end to that.
I agree that the system is particularly painfull during exploration. I'd also LOVE not to have to click jump manually each time outside combats. It would really be a great improvement, especially in a game in which we have to jump so much. Imagine playing Mario and having to stop, click on an icon then click on the target area to jump...
That said I'm not so bothered about the distance we can jump. I'm more concerned about the non-sense usecost that makes jump exploitable / silly in combats.
The distances you jump is absurd. You JUMP up hills and cliffs. This isn't Super Mario. The way enemies just jump over terrain/cc spells (or just burn the terrain down with a cantrip) is just ridiculous.
The distances you jump is absurd. You JUMP up hills and cliffs. This isn't Super Mario. The way enemies just jump over terrain/cc spells (or just burn the terrain down with a cantrip) is just ridiculous.
That's why we don't have heavy armor in the game for jumping like Super Sayajins and for ping-pong mini-games aka shove battles. Just kidding. But what can we do but complain.... We are left with a dilemma... Whereby it will become even more absurd with heavy armor and a full inventory... They put so much effort into the lore and story to maintain the immersion, and then it's ruined with the current jump & shove mechanics...
They put so much effort into the lore and story to maintain the immersion, and then it's ruined with the current jump & shove mechanics...
I absolutely agree with you. The jumping makes the game so comical that it borders on the absurd at times.
I played a main character with strength 18 on my last playthrough, and every once in a while, when I went ahead with another character, my hero would make a downright laughable, giant leap from the background to keep up.
D&D rules are pretty well grounded in realism when magic is not concerned. It's Larian who decided to buff Jumping and Shoving distances to ridiculous levels because they revel in slapstick and memes, regardless of the style of their own game.
BG3 being presented in a very realistic style but gameplay being superhero anime is not a good match. It's distracting and annoying. Magic jumps feel like nothing when every jump is a magic jump.
D&D rules are pretty well grounded in realism when magic is not concerned. It's Larian who decided to buff Jumping and Shoving distances to ridiculous levels because they revel in slapstick and memes, regardless of the style of their own game.
BG3 being presented in a very realistic style but gameplay being superhero anime is not a good match. It's distracting and annoying. Magic jumps feel like nothing when every jump is a magic jump
That said, one of the criticisms of 5e is that level 20 spellcasters become these reality-altering near-gods while level 20 martial characters...hit 4 times as frequently.
I'd be okay with only martial characters (fighters, barbarians, and monks) getting extra, superhero-like jumping abilities as they leveled up.
I think the long jumps are just there because of the limits of programing and animating CRPG. An open map, auto following and such plus both real-time and turn based combat just kind of makes it really hard to deal with little animated characters running around with exacting jump distances. Further, while animating characters and creatures of different sizes, and all of their varied armors and equipment, climbing up small heights rather than jumping would look better it's not really economically feasible (yet) for a game like this. So, while I would also love a fully realistic way of dealing with climbing and jumping in BG3 I get that that cost vs benefit just isn't there yet.
On the other hand the Shove thing is a travesty and it need to be address either by Larian themselves or a Mod, preferable the former, but there are already a few threads on that point
I think the long jumps are just there because of the limits of programing and animating CRPG.
Larian has deep pockets to spend on BG3 and employ over 400 developers, so this is definitely not a shortcut due to economic reasons. They even saw fit to prioritize animating wild shapes to climb ladders instead of saving resources by temporarily reverting back to caster shape (something that benefit only the least popular class in D&D). It is very much deliberate design, in fact, mobility is core to Larian's combat design in previous games too. Maybe because everything else is relatively slow, having some powers that are fast-paced becomes extra important. I don't see Jump changing very much for those reasons.
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On the other hand the Shove thing is a travesty and it need to be address either by Larian themselves or a Mod, preferable the former, but there are already a few threads on that point
Dunking on Shove never gets old
What makes Shove so bad isn't necessarily that it's a Bonus Action. If you make it an Action, then at level 5 you would have to possibility of multiple Shove Actions per enemy per turn for instance. I'd love for Larian to discover Newton's Laws however. Having Shove distance be limited to 1.5 m/5 ft as per D&D rules, would make combat much less about who Shoves who first. For that to happen, Larian would probably need to bite the sour apple and get rid of another "Larianism"; Throw (enemies). Something I hope they do, but I suspect it's become a matter of pride for Swen Vincke after being pressured early in EA to remove another staple of DOS2 combat - the excessive ground effects.
There's a mod out on Nexus (Combat Actions Patch9Ready) that changes Bonus Action Jump into a part of Movement (which should limit the most insane Jumps using the Jump spell and being able to mini-teleport 10 turns). It also makes Shove an Action as per D&D rules, but doesn't address the Shove distance AFAIK.
I thought I reduced shove distance and removed auto shove if hidden. You can shove prone or shove away. Jumping is once per turn in combat but it doesn't cost a BA. Until larian fixed it, I use this mod on all playthroughs.
i don't mind the distance but i do mind how we can jump over enemies without any dice rolls made.
The world record for height from standing is a little over 6 feet. So I agree that unless you are superhuman or using magic, you are not going to be jumping over people in combat.
