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Jhelzei Offline OP
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In older editions of D&D (thinking primarily of 2E and 3E), psionic abilities - like those of Gith and Illithids - had radically different mechanics from standard magic. For example, creatures had psionic points that they expended to use abilities, and standard protections against magic were largely useless against psionic creatures and users (the spell Mind Blank was an interesting exception.) But I've noticed in BG3 that psionic abilities are represented with standard spells (e.g., substituting Mage Hand for Telekinesis.)

Since I don't have easy access to a 5e rulebook, I had a couple of questions. Is this trend in BG3 the standard implementation of psionics in 5E? If so, is there any substantial difference between 'psionics' and magic?

Some will say it should have always been this way; myself, I always enjoyed the different feel and focus of older psionic systems. For those who don't know, D&D's standard magic system is derived in large part from an old novel called "Dying Earth" by Jack Vance. A limited number of spells (and the energy contained therein) can be memorized and held by the caster, and different tiers of power (i.e., spell level) existed. The sorcerer class changed this formula a bit, but it's still based on spell levels. I've always preferred point based systems due to the increased flexibility and somewhat stronger resemblance to the magic of myth, folklore and (most) fantasy fiction.

So is this standard for 5E, or Larian's own interpretation of psionics or mental powers?

Last edited by Jhelzei; 25/04/23 12:55 AM.
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Unfortunately, it's the standard treatment of Psionics in D&D 5e. Which, in my opinion, is basically no treatment at all. They did do a short playtest for the D&D 5e 'Mystic', which was going serve as the Psionicist for 5e, but no one was happy with the results so they scrapped it. However, the Mystic didn't really capture the feel of the Psionicist from prior editions, so maybe that's for the best. You can search for Unearthed Arcana: The Mystic Class, if you're curious about it.

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Well that stinks. Seriously though, that's quite unfortunate. In the past, some players complained about the completely different system because it was so radically different from the 'Vancian' system used everywhere else in DnD. It did require extra effort to learn, but I nonetheless enjoyed it. Oh well...

Last edited by Jhelzei; 25/04/23 07:39 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jhelzei
Well that stinks. Seriously though, that's quite unfortunate. In the past, some players complained about the completely different system because it was so radically different from the 'Vancian' system used everywhere else in DnD. It did require extra effort to learn, but I nonetheless enjoyed it. Oh well...

You know I never even thought about that, but you are 100% right. There really isn't support for a 'Psionics' character class. Bard would be the closest AND they have a lot of Psionic focused spells with Vicious Mockery, Dissonant Whispers, Psychic Lance, Phantasmal Force etc...

There is even a story in the game about a Duergar that has Psionic abilities. Yet it's just not a class. I guess balance would be an issue unless they made up a specific resource for that class that limited use of abilities. Illithids can cast Mind Blast on a 5-6 recharge - so 30% of the time - but unlimited. I wonder if that mechanic could work for a PC? You start your combat with use of the ability and every round have a 30% chance of gaining another use.


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D&D 3.5 handled it by giving psionicists a bunch of psionic points that they could expend for "spells". They learned abilities at level up, rather than memorize them, so they were really more like sorcerers turned up to 11. The fact that they could dump all their points on their highest level abilities was balanced by the fact that they would have terrible endurance if they did that. They would be OP in an environment where they could rest between each battle...

Still, I wish they were in 5e. I love every book by Jack Vance that I've read (and I've read a bunch) but I hate the stranglehold he has on the D&D magic system.

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For me psionics isn't magic
Some players will just flavour their spells as psionics and call it done.

I think a diff approach would be worth playtesting.
Eg certain powers can only be used every X rounds. Some you need to meditate to get them back. Maybe it's a parasitic type power and you need to drain psychic energy from others to regain your powers.

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Originally Posted by LostSoul
Some players will just flavour their spells as psionics and call it done.

Hear hear ! Flavouring is the way to play.

Or rather, in most cases, re-flavouring. Indeed, the D&D books always suggest some initial theming, flavouring, lore, or world-building. They certainly do so when it comes to what a Class or Subclass is (or can be). And especially when it comes to explaining why some characters can do magic. But nothing forces you to follow the suggestions.

As per the official suggestions, you could be casting magic spells, among other reasons, because :
  •  you studied the magic of the world, you understand how it works and it's a tool you can use ;
  •  it's innate to you, you "just do it" ;
  •  some Deity (or other ultra-powerful being) wants you to have spells ;
  •  you can feel the Force, I mean, feel the magic that flow through Nature, and tap into it ;
  •  you can feel the Force, I mean, feel the magic of the Word, and tap into it ;
  •  you understand the magic of Ki that flows through your body and can control it ;
  • you believe in something big, you believe in yourself, and that magically empowers you.

Psionics is just another flavouring. It could be that you can cast spells because you have innate mind powers. Or because you studied, understand, and can use the power of the mind. Whatever.


From a mechanical standpoint, 5E already has various systems for spell-casting.
  •  Cleric and Druids have spell slots, a spell list, and prepared spells.
  •  Wizards work the same way, but not completely. They build their own spell list, instead of having a set one like Clerics and Druids.
  •  Sorcerers and Bards work with spell slots, like Clerics, Druids and Wizards. But they don't prepare spells (they know spells, as per the standard terminology). Or they always have the entirety of their spell list prepared, depending on how you want look at it.
  •  Warlock, well ... Some designers probably felt that there weren't enough systems for spell casting, so they made a new one. Warlocks know spells, much like Sorcerers and Bards. They have a resource called spell slots, which works like normal spells slots, except when it doesn't. Also, beyond spell level 5, they use yet another mechanics called mystic arcanum, and those are not spell slots at all.

I don't think that adding yet another mechanics for psionic magic would have been a great idea.


As far as how psionic powers/characters are represented in 5E, there are 3 Subclasses in Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything.

The Psi Warrior Fighter and the Soul Knife Rogue work essentially the same way as Battle Master Fighters. They gain a Subclass-specific resource call Psionic Energy Dice. They can spend those to fuel their special, psionic abilities. (The main difference is that Psionic Energy Dice recharge on Long Rests.)

The Aberrant Mind Sorcerer works differently. It's mostly psionic-themed (and pretty cool imo), but it doesn't get Psionic Energy Dice. I can't remember where and when, but I remember reading or listening to an interview from a WOTC designer (probably Jeremy Crawford) saying that since Sorcerers already have their own Sorcery Points resource, they decided against adding Psionic Energy Dice on top of it.


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