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Hi all, because this cropped up in another thread but I didn’t want to derail that further, I thought I’d start a new one to ask about folks’ hopes for additional companions in the full game. I know similar topics have come up before, but don’t recall a discussion specifically on this recently. So far, we have the existing five EA companions, plus Minsc and Jaheira, and we assume Karlach as well. I know there was another datamined potential companion (Helia?) but am setting that aside as I don’t think we’ve had anything more than that on her. We are also expecting the ability to recruit custom mercenaries, who are unlikely to have much in the way of personalities. Would you be satisfied with that as a roster of companions, or do you think that leaves significant gaps, and if so what are they? Personally: - I’d be disappointed if we don’t get at least one or two companions from the shorter races. I’d love it if Barcus Wroot became a full party member once saved from Grymforge, but I’d be sad if we don’t have at least one potential dwarf companion.
- I’m also feeling there’s a certain lack of variety with the male PCs, given the three we have so far all come from relatively privileged backgrounds, and while Minsc doesn’t fit that mould I’d hope that he’s not the only exception in the full game. Plus, with Minsc, three out of four are human.
- I like Halsin and certainly wouldn’t object if he became a companion, but it might leave druids feeling a bit over-represented on the assumption Jaheira is a druid or fighter/druid. I’d probably prefer he were a temporary companion that accompanied us at Moonrise Towers and a full companion slot were reserved for someone of a different class.
- Minthara might be an interesting companion if we decide to support her grove attack, though possibly too tied to one specific path that most players are unlikely to take unless the story is overhauled somewhat.
- Same problem for Nere, though there does seem to be a gap in caster classes for an evil path that would need addressing given Wyll is likely to jump ship and Gale at the very least needs some persuading if we get too nasty.
- We also seem to be lacking in rogue alternatives, and while I know we don’t strictly need one I think we should have more options than just Astarion. Of course, if we get multi-classing then Shadowheart or Wyll (especially if his Dex were improved) could make thematically and mechanically decent semi-rogues. Barcus might also make a good multi-class rogue (/artificer?).
- Healer options also seem to be limited, and while Shadowheart as the only cleric would be partly mitigated by being able to recruit Minthara as paladin (or Karlach, though I think later indications are that she’ll be a barbarian) and/or Jaheira/Halsin as druids, and again there are plenty of healing options without a pure cleric, but the lack of a good cleric still feels like a bit of a gap so far to me.
- I assume Minsc is going to be specced suitably for a strength-based ranger, possibly with an optional barbarian multiclass, and Karlach will be a barbarian or paladin, so that will give us some alternatives to Lae’zel on the front line, plus there’s the outside bet of Minthara as a paladin for evil playthroughs.
I’m fine if not every single class or race is represented amongst full companions as long as there’s a decent selection of diverse characters that can fulfill key party roles whatever our PC class, but it does feel as though we could do with at least a few more companions for real party flexibility and replay potential. Of course, if Larian let us change classes of companions then that gives more flexibility, but I’d only really be comfortable with classes that made story and roleplay sense, so that’s not a perfect solution for any gaps as far as I’m concerned. I would definitely feel there are still more gaps if companions are also going to be our only options for romance arcs for our PCs, but I think the better solution there would be to have recurring NPCs who can provide more choice than to create companions specifically as romantic interests.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Halsin is my top pick for companions!!!🐻🐻🐻 I think the current companions are well written but would like some more good or sympathetic neutral companions. Also, to recruit good companions you shouldn’t have to kill people in cold blood (as you do for Karlach now (if she is a good companion)). Also, the more elf and caster companions the better! 
Last edited by Icelyn; 25/04/23 01:00 PM.
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Ever since the idea came to me a while back, I've really been into the idea of Nettie being a potential companion for us. I love a dwarf gal, they're sorely underrepresented in media. I think she'd be a better companion than Halsin because Halsin just feels too... important. Having him in the party as a full on companion, it could further strain the justification for our character being the leader of the party. Nettie is still an apprentice, she's got a great voice and I think she'd be an interesting good companion in her own right.
In general, I think nine or ten companions would be a good number to aim for. Both the Dragon Age and Mass Effect franchises have consistently had about that amount, and they're far more limited in terms of classes. I do think that they're going to need a few more though. As has been pointed out, it's quite likely that if you go the cult route you'll end up with a dirth of spellcasters. These are supposedly the most evil companions, and while they're not that evil overall, I do think that they're all at least morally compromised, with maybe the exception of Wyll depending on your perspective. So I think including more morally uncomplicated companions is very important, I don't think there's room for more evil-leaning companions unless the roster of good companions is expanded significantly as well.
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I would want a balanced party of all good-aligned companions. And I would want at least 5 such companions so I can have a true six-person party. But getting even 3 such companions for a party of four is, in my view, not going to be provided to me. So I have no hopes.
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It's worth keeping in mind that the MTG color wheel doesn't directly relate to morality the way D&D's alignment chart does. White is the color of order, society and valuing the collective over the individual, which I think makes perfect sense for Lae'zel and the Githyanki. Sure they're cuthroat, viscious and murderous, but it's all in the interest of creating a strong society, killing Mindflayers and furthering the goals of their queen. In a way, the Githyanki are the worst example of white philosophy, short of being a forced hivemind; the individual holds no value beyond what they can offer to society, and so if they're weak enough to be killed, then their killer is doing right by society, removing weakness from it.
Similarly, Black isn't just the color of evil, though it certainly is the most associated with evil things. It's the color of ambition, self-interest and power whatever the cost. Which I think makes sense for a cleric of Shar.
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The only amount of companions i would concider enough would be 3 per class ... One evil, one good, and one something in between ... for each class. Or at least two per class ... just good and evil one ... OR as bare minimum ... one per class ... it would still suck tho to loose your only Warlock, just bcs you decided to do something. :-/ And at least one per class of them should also be Origin ... I mean come on, what is the point of having pre-defined characters to play, if you can only play some classes? :-/ Personaly i see no reason to repeat races for companions, but it seems like Larian likes Humans (Gale, Wyll, Minsc) and Half-Elves (Jaheira, Shadowheart) over Gnomes (Gale could have ben gnome), Halflings (i still hope for Helya), Dwarves (i still hope we get option to recruit Nettie), etc. That makes me little sad honestly. :-/ It really made me sad that we didnt get any option to test mercenaries ... On the other hand im looking forward to how they will be handled ... And i especialy hope that lots (actually almost any) character from Groove would be recruitable as mercenary, under certain conditions. My hopes are really high for Aradin, Nettie, Redeemed Kagha, that Tiefling Bard i dont remember the name, and Lakrissa! Also, i really hope Goblin camp get either same, or simmilar threatment ... I would really like to have some Hobgoblin mercenary, since they seem to be able to dress different armours.  Goblins, i dont have my hopes too high, since their models are tied to their armors.  But it would be cool! I admit that i would really like to have all 3 leaders in my party ... Gut, Ragzlin and Minthara. :3 I would also like to repeat that if we are supposed to loose certain companions for the choices we made (aka attack/defend the grove) ... and if we indeed are supposed to get some other companions in return ... i would really like it if they would fit simmilar roles. :-/ Before Mintara was turned into Paladin, it seemed like we lost a Warlock and posibly Wizard ... to gain another Cleric ... Paladin is little better in this case, since its at least class we dont have, but it cant fill role of either Wizard, nor Warlock. :-/
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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Depending on how old Halflings can become, we could also meet Chaotic Good https://scryfall.com/card/clb/55/alora-merry-thief again after about 100 years. Or she has a special explanation like Minsc and Volo why she is still alive after 100 years in exactly the same time and region... Nooooooo!!! Alora ties with Quayle for me as BG1 companion I most dislike. I’m more than happy never to have to encounter her again. Reunion with https://scryfall.com/card/clb/156/viconia-drow-apostate and with the whole Shar plot, we just have to meet her again. She also looks very aged, which fits. Probably she won't be a playable companion, but rather the leader of the Sharrans in BG, to whom Shadowheart has to bring the artifact. At least that's how I imagine it. I have also theorised that Viconia might be the person who sent Shadowheart for the artefact. And I wonder whether Edwin might be connected to the Lorroakan plot. I’d be happy with either or both, and would no doubt enjoy cameos from almost any other BG1/2 companions still likely to be alive and in the area, but don’t particularly want them to be party members. I’d rather have new characters for the bulk of my BG3 gang.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Depending on how old Halflings can become, we could also meet Chaotic Good https://scryfall.com/card/clb/55/alora-merry-thief again after about 100 years. Or she has a special explanation like Minsc and Volo why she is still alive after 100 years in exactly the same time and region... Nooooooo!!! Alora ties with Quayle for me as BG1 companion I most dislike. I’m more than happy never to have to encounter her again. Reunion with https://scryfall.com/card/clb/156/viconia-drow-apostate and with the whole Shar plot, we just have to meet her again. She also looks very aged, which fits. Probably she won't be a playable companion, but rather the leader of the Sharrans in BG, to whom Shadowheart has to bring the artifact. At least that's how I imagine it. I have also theorised that Viconia might be the person who sent Shadowheart for the artefact. And I wonder whether Edwin might be connected to the Lorroakan plot. I’d be happy with either or both, and would no doubt enjoy cameos from almost any other BG1/2 companions still likely to be alive and in the area, but don’t particularly want them to be party members. I’d rather have new characters for the bulk of my BG3 gang. Edwin was human, so are you thinking he is a Lich at this point or just used magic to extend his life as Wizards do? Do you think he has taken over Lorroakan's tower and is manipulating events from there?
Blackheifer
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Edwin was human, so are you thinking he is a Lich at this point or just used magic to extend his life as Wizards do? Do you think he has taken over Lorroakan's tower and is manipulating events from there? I was just going off this post from Gt27mustang, which includes a spoiler-tagged screenshot they mention is from Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy which I’m not sure is considered canon, though it is by James Ohlen who was lead designer for BG1&2 and according to Wikipedia has been working for a sort of subdivision of WotC since 2019 so while the Journal was published after the start of BG3 EA and isn’t badged as official WotC material, it doesn’t seem totally outside the bounds of possibility that this is a take that Larian had early access to via their collaboration with WotC and might pick up in BG3. Though I realise there’s lots of speculation there, so equally … perhaps not!
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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I want a dwarven bard companion. We never had a dwarven bard companion in the history of D&D video games, and I think it's time we finally got one. I want him to be a male too. I totally agree that we need at least 2 companions that are from the shorty races, my vote goes for halfling and dwarf. The halfling could be a ranger, I think that would be awesome. I want Karlach to be cut and not be a companion, her very storyline is way too shaky. I would gladly have Anders in my party instead, he is a way more interesting and compelling character. On the other hand I think Halsin would be a really nice companion and an alternative healer to SH. Minsc and Jaheira might totally be optional, I mean they probably won't be on your side if you side with Minthara. Minthara would be a fun Oath of Vengeance Paladin companion. Also call me crazy but I would love to have Mayrina's agressive redhead brother as a companion, there is something about his voice and temper that I find hilariously attractive. Also, if we are talking BG1-2 companions, it would be fun if Branwen, Garrick and Tiax could make an appearance
Last edited by Brewman; 25/04/23 05:12 PM.
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Instead of an army of tadpole zombies, I would LOVE to be able to recruit other NPCs in the game. Even if they have limited skyrim esk dialog limitations. On the top of my list is Abdirak. https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Abdirak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Not gonna happen, but I said this in a similar thread over a year ago:
-Omeluum
-Spaw/Glut
-Any really weird options that allow for particularly creative storytelling and character building.
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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So far, we have the existing five EA companions, plus Minsc and Jaheira, and we assume Karlach as well. I know there was another datamined potential companion (Helia?) but am setting that aside as I don’t think we’ve had anything more than that on her. We are also expecting the ability to recruit custom mercenaries, who are unlikely to have much in the way of personalities.
Would you be satisfied with that as a roster of companions, or do you think that leaves significant gaps, and if so what are they? . Personally : - I'd be disappointed if we don't get at least 12 to 16 companions. In part, I'd want this number range just variety of character personalities and backstories, and replayability.
Basically, more Companions means more narrative content, and I like narrative content.
BG2 had 17 Companions. I seem to vaguely remember (maybe from Panel From Hell 1, or some similar pre-Early Access communication) Larian saying that, compared to BG2, BG3 would have fewer Companions but each would be more developed. I never bought into this argument, as it kind of implies that Larian has the same budget as Bioware. But I think that Larian has several times the budget Bioware had, even before the opening of EA, which brought in a lot more money.
I remember Swen saying in some interview that, at some point, they decided to upscale the studio rather than downscale the plans they had for the project. That was a few months after the start of Early Access. So I hope that they decided, among other things, to review their initially-low number of Companions and to add a good few of new ones.
- I'd like to have full Class diversity : at least one Companion per Class in the game.
If we assume only the 12 PHB Classes (i.e., no Artificer from Tasha's Cauldron Of Everything), that means at least 12 Companions.
This is because I think there shouldn't be an orphan or left-unattended Class. And it shouldn't be the case that if you want to play with such a non-represented Class, you have to make it your PC's Class.
For instance, I might want to play with a Monk, but not necessarily as a Monk. This could be because the few PC+Backstories that I came up with are all spell-casters, and I can't come up with a character that could fit as a Monk.
Also, if there are at least 2 Classes not represented among the Companions, creating a PC from one of those non-represented Classes might not solve the problem. (For instance, if I want to feature a Monk+Paladin+Bard combo in my party, and neither is represented by a Companion, well, I'm stuck.) (Note : no, I don't want to create 2 or 3 PC in the same playthrough.)
- I'd like to see more Race diversity among the Companions.
So far, out of the confirmed 5 (Gale, Wyll, Shadowheart, Astarion, Lae'zel), and most-presumed 3 (Karlach, Minsc, Jaheira), we have : 3 Humans, 1 Elf, 2 Half-Elves ; as well as 1 Githyanki and 1 Tiefling to bring a bit of change. Not a single short Race —Dwarf, Halfling, Gnome— or (Half-)Orc. That would call for at least 4 more Companions.
- I'd like for there to be enough Companions so that, for each main Story-Path(*) that I chooses to pursue, there are enough path-compatible Companions(**) that I still have some interesting choices for party-composition.
This presumes : (a) sufficiently many Companions compatible with my path, and (b) that those compatible companions can cover the main party-roles.
So long as I seek to assemble a reasonably-balanced party (say, a front-liner in combat, a spell-caster in combat, a Face for conversations, a dexterous one with Sleight of Hands for exploration, etc), I should be able to freely choose my Main Story-Path and my PC's Class.
For instance, if I choose to master to tadpole and embrace its powers, rather than seeking to get rid of it, then :- If only 3 Companions agree to stick with me, then I obviously don't have any choice about who will be in my adventuring party. Not cool.
- If 5 Companions agree to stick with me, then great, I can choose my party. But if they are all squishy and ranged back-liners in combat, that means that I have to either create a front-liner PC, or be shoe-horned to playing with a full-ranged party. Not cool.
For context, (*) I tend to think there will be basically 2 main Story-Path. Well, maybe 3, but least those 2. - Seeking to get rid of the tadpole. That will likely involve foiling the nefarious plans engineered by the Absolute.
- Seeking to conquer the tadpole and its powers. That may or may not involve reaping for ourselves the benefits of the nefarious plans engineered by the Absolute. (I wouldn't be surprised if ascending to godhood is a possible ending.)
(**) I don't expect all companions to be ok with every Story Path. - Lae'zel seems to be the kind who will want to get rid of the tadpole. I can see her evolve on a number of points (e.g. faith in Vlaakith, disdain for Toril folks, etc), but I don't see her accepting to have a Illithid abomination in her body.
- Astarion is clearly more interested in master the tadpole. I'd be disappointed if he can be convinced to quest for tadpole removal.
In fact, I'd be disappointed if every Companion can be convinced to follow us on every Story Path. Rather, I feel that, for each Path, there should be at the very least one Companion that refuses to follow us. And to be clear : I don't consider that a hollow, personality-less, malleable/editable/make-your-own Mercenary will do the job. Larian has been very silent about what exactly they had in mind when they mentioned a Mercenary system, so it's up to everybody to guess how those would work. But I don't think they can make Mercenaries something I'd remotely want to use. So I want Companions, not some create-an-extra-character-on-the-fly Mercenaries.
Last edited by Drath Malorn; 25/04/23 09:04 PM.
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I seem to vaguely remember (maybe from Panel From Hell 1, or some similar pre-Early Access communication) Larian saying that, compared to BG2, BG3 would have fewer Companions but each would be more developed. I never bought into this argument, as it kind of implies that Larian has the same budget as Bioware. I don’t think that follows. Larian aren’t saying that they’ll spend the same amount on companions as BG2 but put it into depth rather than quantity. I’m sure they’ll be spending far, far more. But most of the BG2 companions didn’t have much content, flexibility or reactivity to events, were only partly voiced and sprite animation was pretty standard and basic. It wouldn’t surprise me if the work that goes into creating a BG3-type companion were orders of magnitude greater. As I think someone said earlier in this thread, the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games are probably a better indication of what’s likely to be feasible for a title with the ambitions of BG3, and those range from six companions in ME1 to ten core companions plus two DLC in ME2 (not including Morinth or Liara in LotS). DA:O had ten, including DLC companion Shale, a dog and another companion only available in the end game (plus temporary characters for each origin story, I guess). I’m trying to temper my expectations accordingly, though of course I’ll be delighted if there are more companions than I predict.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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I seem to vaguely remember (maybe from Panel From Hell 1, or some similar pre-Early Access communication) Larian saying that, compared to BG2, BG3 would have fewer Companions but each would be more developed. I never bought into this argument, as it kind of implies that Larian has the same budget as Bioware. I don’t think that follows. Larian aren’t saying that they’ll spend the same amount on companions as BG2 but put it into depth rather than quantity. I’m sure they’ll be spending far, far more. But most of the BG2 companions didn’t have much content or reactivity to events, were only partly voiced and sprite animation was pretty standard and basic. It wouldn’t surprise me if the work that goes into creating a BG3-type companion were orders of magnitude greater. Oh sure. Larian certainly has a much bigger budget than what Bioware had. And their cost per companion is certainly much higher as well. What I meant to say is this. If you say "I'll give you fewer companions than BG2 but each will have more depth and character development than the BG2 companions have", you are comparing your product to BG2 (twice). You're setting BG2 as reference point for content. And my reaction to this is : sure, but that's not very relevant, since you don't have the same budget as BG2. (In Larian's defence, they may have been prompted by an interviewer or show host who asked about the number of companions, relative to BG2. It may not have been Larian's idea to compare number and depth of companions in BG3 with those of BG2.) Let's say, for the sake of example, that Larian's budget (or at least the budget dedicated to companions) is 4 times that of Bioware. And that the cost per companion's depth is the same. Then, Larian could do 4 times as many companions with the same depth. Or as many companions with 4 times the depth. Or twice as many companions with twice the depth. Or half as many companions with 8 times the depth. Or a quarter as many companions with 16 times the depth. Etc. (And I'd have been in favour of something closer to "as many companions with 4 times the depth", or more precisely, of not cutting companion number below 12.) Of course, due to the focus on graphics (and to some extent voice acting, though I suspect animation is the bigger cost), the cost per companion's depth in higher in BG3. Maybe 10 times higher. Then again, technology and game engines have progressed in the past 20 years, so maybe the cost is just 5 times higher. And maybe Larian has 20 times the budget for companions that Bioware had (meaning they could do 4 times as well as Bioware). Or they have 10 times the budget. Or 30 times. I don't know. Anyway, I said, I think there should be at least 12 companions, ideally. And I'd be disappointed if we don't end up with at least 10 companions. But realistically, and in terms of expectation, I don't really expect 10. In fact, 9 would already be a positive surprise.
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What I meant to say is this. If you say "I'll give you fewer companions than BG2 but each will have more depth and character development than the BG2 companions have", you are comparing your product to BG2 (twice). You're setting BG2 as reference point for content. And my reaction to this is : sure, but that's not very relevant, since you don't have the same budget as BG2. (In Larian's defence, they may have been prompted by an interviewer or show host who asked about the number of companions, relative to BG2. It may not have been Larian's idea to compare number and depth of companions in BG3 with those of BG2.) Ah, got you. I confess I’d simply assumed that Larian’s mention of the number of BG2 companions was prompted by a question, though I guess as BG3’s predecessor it’s a natural comparison, however different the production values. Not that I want to diss BG2’s values: I was dead impressed when I played it when it first came out, but as you say technology and engines have progressed significantly in the last 20 years, along with expectations of companion design.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Ideally I would want a companion per class (so 12ve?). I think I would be satisfied if we got another 5 on top of the 5 we have seen in EA. Anything less would be cutting it close to me, as I am not terribly fond of our confirmed roster. That said with a smaller party size, Larian can get by with a smaller companion roster - 9 companions would give 3 full playthroughs with no companion overlap. And with high reactivity, there is an appeal to mixing up different companion composition to see what interactions might there be.
Non-origins companions being cofirmed also opens some questions:
How many origins/vs non-origin companions will there be. Will we get recruitable party members without companion content (like sidekicks in Deadfire? - I doubt it. Excess seems to be the name of the game for BG3).
Last edited by Wormerine; 25/04/23 10:51 PM.
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I'm in for more party members like in BG2. I don't care if its shallow writing or underdeveloped. My brain and modders can do the rest.
WE NEED THE 3D ASSETS from Larian. We also NEED an option for written text dialogue. Something that works top down view (like when you speak with animals.).
I'd rather have a couple greatly written NPCs (from which half I already dislike...) with tons of more simple and generic NPC companions; not just lifeless bots.
All my hopes are now with the modding community to make amazing new npcs. I just hope we will have the tools to do so.
Looking on how things went in DOS2 on that front...(zero new playable npcs, zero modded in playable npcs...) not holding my breath.
Thats your reason right there why BG2 is still popular 20 years later: Xan, Sirene, Yvette, Adrian, Fade, Kelsey, Isra, Amber, Valen, Solaufein, Tashia, Keto...etc...and all the new stories, quests and dialogues they bring to an already great cast of 17 companions.
Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 25/04/23 11:12 PM.
It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
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You don't like Alora ?!! Ha, I admit she is kind of a "sweet muffin" character, but after spending some time with her in my party, I actually grew to like having her pleasant voice and good thief skills around.
But anyway for companions in BG III, I would love to have just a simple neutral fighter that any type of party could use. Nothing too special in the background, maybe just a spritz of gnomish in an otherwise human family tree ... a "gnuman", if you will. And his first name could be Gary, which makes the full name Gary Gnuman ...
"My name's a war song, I sing you a new one
My name is ruin, my name is broken
My name is shameless, I'll tear your world open"
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