Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General So... what is Sven's big upcoming surprise ?

As we read here and there :
" game director Baldur’s Gate 3 Sven Vinke spoke about a certain secret that he kept from the very announcement of the role-playing game. According to the developer, the players will find out what it is about only after the release of the final version of the project. “There is one thing, but I can’t talk about it. I have kept this secret for years and I will be so happy when the information about it comes out. I just hope people like it, because I myself think it’s really cool. From the very first day, from the very first day, I see people discussing something, and every time I say: “God. How I want to tell them … “”

So, what do you think it is ?

Let me roll for... Space fights in the Astral Plane !

Your turn...

Well, the question is why does it need to be a secret?

1) is it for plot reasons? This seems most likely. Revealing it would give too much away.

2) Is it because it's a bit of homebrew that they are not sure people will like? I think this is not likely, Larian would want to get feedback on homebrew. I mean at least they know we don't really like BA shove.

I can't think of any other reasons to not reveal something but I am putting money on its a plot detail thing that ties into the Dead Three and has to do with some sort of interaction we have with them.

1) Maybe we already got it? Minsc returning and being voiced by Mercer certainly got a lot of folks excited.

2) Some other big name character returning that isn't Minsc or Jaheria?

3) BG III is kicking off some big status quo changing event for the realms. Could happen. WoTC has done it before. (Time of Troubles, Spellplague, etc)

4) Some mechanic they have been keeping under wraps this whole time. Seems unlikely to me, as one would think they'd be wanting to test it in EA for feedback.

5) Crossover with some other game, setting, novel etc. I know I'd be surprised if IDK we meet the nameless one in Avernus, fight One-of-Many as an optional boss working for Myrkul or bump into Liriel Baenre or something. There's a lot that Larian *could* do here. Mercer's involvement makes me wonder if there's going to be some CR stuff in the game, or alternatively some mtg-related stuff since WoTC did a tie-in with the game.

6) Something involving the Bhaalspawn. I'm sure Larian known that absolutely nobody loves Abdel Adrian, so I'm curious how they handle the Bhaalspawn in BG III.

I can tell you this: if it turns out to be just something plot or character-related, I can hardly see myself caring much for it.

Then again, if it's about mechanics or technical features, I doubt there would be any need of (and especially any benefit in) being secretive about it... So, yeah. I'm not exactly expecting to have my world rocked and keeping low expectations.

Its about the box ...
There is not even single shadow of doubt in my mind.

I wouldn't expect something plot related, the whole plot is already a secret waiting to be revealed. My guess is a feature that we wouldn't expect.

If that should be true with MtG, then "Planeswalking" immediately comes to my mind. That would fit (Mordenkainen). It could even be a good justification for why we see Volo again... I believe that Larian could also justify side trips to or visitors from Rivellon. I just realize that I wouldn't necessarily like it.... Too many universes...
In the end you hit the wrong universe and the Orcs are running around with machine guns.

Maybe the surprise is Swen revealing that BG3 is actually a D:OS game after all.

Tongue-in-cheek, of course, but I don't expect any Swen/Larian "surprise" to be much of a surprise to me.

Yeah, I would very much not be a fan of mtg bleeding over into Forgotten Realms. While the D&D settings have typically had a degree of interconnectedness or at least common foundations through shared elements, I don't want mtg in my Forgotten Realms, particularly with the ongoing decline in mtg's storytelling. Let the settings remain separate and celebrate their distinctiveness. But it is an eventual possibility that WoTC has been toying with, even if we haven't seen them commit to it (yet).

I think it is something plot-related. I can imagine that it could be something like this:


I must admit that I am very excited about the full release. The plot seems to involve a lot of parties already: we've got the Absolute, the Dead Three, Shar and her followers, Mindflayers, the hells, the Githyanki, and maybe Selune and Mystra ... (and I am sure I still might have forgotten someone). And there is of course our artefact, whatever it is, and the Netherese magic that might have changed our tadpoles.

Quite a few characters seem to be connected to one of these, in one way or another, including our companions (or at least I think so):


I wonder how our Tav fits into this.
Personally, I'd prefer if we were just accidentally dragged into this mess 😄

For me, it would be more fun if my player character is not the "chosen one", but just a regular person who is trying to make the best of all of this. I think "becoming special" is more interesting for a player character than being "destined to be special". And it allows for more player agency.

I am very curious how everything will fall into place.
But August is not that far away.

the all powerful D20 of fate

I am actually pretty certain that there is going to be at least one edning where we can go through apotheosis and become a god.
Alternatively I'm also 100% sure that we can make certain other characters become deities. For example, I'm quite convinced that as a Githyanki or as Lae'zel we can help Vlaakith to finally ascend to divinity. I am absolutely 100% convinced that this will be a possibility.

Another thing I'm sure of is that as Lolth-Sworn Drow we can make Lolth finally achieve her lifelong dream of usurping Mystra as the goddess of magic, (and honestly that would be such a cool af grimdark ending, I want it).
Maybe if we play the politics of Hell well We can replace Asmodeus with another archdevil as the Lord of Hell, although I think Asmodeus is actually a deity now.

I fully expect it to be some sort of tie in between FR and the world of DOS2. Would be consistent with the DOS2 content already slated for Launch.

I think so, too, I hope we get several different endings.

I'd like to see at least one of my Tavs going from being an average person to becoming a goddess.
Not because she's related to someone, or has something "special" about her, but from her own ambition, more like the Dead Three. This way, it could be really interesting.
But somehow basically all of my characters end up being to kind and nice for something like this 😄


The position as goddess of magic seems to be really popular 😉
Would also be a nice goal for a sorcerer Tav. But Lolth is a pretty tough competitor, I don' t think this would end well...

I like that the Mysterious Artefact is, basically, a fancy D20. How else could you design an all powerful object? 😄

A series of 4th wall breaking, immersion shattering messages from the devs or even in world characters, to the players of the game, embedded at various points throughout the game like 'easter eggs', except that you can't help getting them in sequence as you play. The Larian crew and Swen think this is so funny and charming and endearing that they cannot imagine anyone not liking it.


Okay, with that out of the way, the only possibilities are up, right?

Another form of shove?

I think it's either a major secret plot thing that ties into the old games or the setting as a whole, or a character to be revealed. If its something mechanical, why wouldn't they mention it ahead of time? Unless it's a mechanic tied into an aspect of the story we don't know about.

I'd settle for a more dynamic world where I could retrace steps and find new quests/npc's/enemies in places I'd previously visited. Doubt that will happen though.

I severely doubt it's this. Firstly, because the DOS2 content are optional Easter eggs you only get with a deluxe edition, not stuff that's meaningfully embedded in the game world. Secondly, I can't imagine Larian wanting to tie their own setting to WotC like that. Any tie between the worlds big enough for Swen to be this excited and also to be bringing up the way he did would have to be fairly major, which could lead to awkwardness in the future when they continue with Divinity stuff.

"So, what do you think it is ?"


The surprise is about timetravel and being able to "revisit" certain major events in Faeruns history, this might lead to canon changes in the present dnd world.

Boo will be a playable origin character.

Let's face it... Mystra is kinda cringe. She has no personality at all and she sucks at being the goddess of magic (died 3-4 times already?).
Now Lolth would be a much better fit for a lot of reasons. She has ambition, she has talent, she obviously knows how to stand on her own two feet, and has a talent for intrigue and subtlety, she has a certain mystique, not to mention the fact that magic works through the Weave and Lolth is a spider. What do spiders do best? They weave. It's thematically fitting.
Also, Lolth would still be forced to provide magic for everyone equally, the same way Mystra was forced to do so because Ao made her do it, so this wouldn't ruin magic for anyone (except for, ironically, elves, who hate Lolth enough to give up on magic lmao), but it would make the setting a lot more fun and unsettling and I can just totally see Lolth instantenously starting to plot against Ao, but unlike the Dead Three, she would actually be smart about it.

Nah. The much better surprise would be that Ao finally got tired of Lolth's b.s. and chopped off her stupid head.

Be a contrarian if you want but the truth is that Lolth is one of those few deities who actually spices up this setting. Yeah she is vile and totally capricious, but she at least raises the stakes.

It must be possible to limit possibilities by following this clue: " From the very first day, from the very first day, I see people discussing something, and every time I say: “God. How I want to tell them … "

First question: What does he mean with 'the very first day'? I assume it is the day when BG3 was announced to the general public. So on that day people started writing about what they would like to see. We know it was written, because Sven says he sees people discussing. So ... is anyone willing to find out at which day BG3 was first announced and on which discussion platforms the announcement was discussed? Then it is only a matter of looking at what was written on that day. This is likely to at least limit the options.

I’m pretty sure he is not being that literal.

I think this is a big surprise for old time BG/BG2 fans.

What's the biggest thing about BG? Bhaalspawn. We know Bhaal resurrected. Maybe Tav is Charname's descendant?

Maybe something about Irenicus, or Bodhi?

Maybe we can revisit watcher's keep, or Demogorgon is returning (enough time has passed?)

Maybe Viconia? She's still alive.

Anyway it will be connect to previous games' plot or characters.

I don’t think any of those are it, but if it is something people have speculated about it probably has some connection to the earlier games.

I think a connection to the first games is the only kind of 'reveal' that would warrant the kind of day one discussion Swen is talking about. Whatever it might be.
Maybe the artifact is a prison that the last bit of Bhaal essence our Bhaalspawn hid away, and "who do you dream of" is a pocket plane-esque specter of the Bhaalspawn.

Or it could be something something the Absolute is what! something. Ho hum

The Bhaalspawn is more about violence and murder rather than seduction, so I’m pretty sure the Dream-person isn’t related. Also, I’m pretty sure that canonically the last bits of Bhaal essence were sent back to the source when Abdel and Viekang took each other out in the Murder in Baldur’s Gate campaign. At least that is my understanding. Never actually played it.

You might not remember what the seduction is about, the dreamer wants us to burn the world.

I know that, but I don’t think it’s a very Bhaal / Bhaalspawn thing to be seducing in the first place. Doesn’t feel on brand.

My intuition says he is being that literal. As for finding the mythical “first day conversation”, I’m sorry to say it’s really not that narrow.

You can check through the early posts in the Feedback section of the forum. Reading through posts dated oct 6 and oct 7 (early access started on october 6th 2020) you’ll find that every point brought up during early access was made in the first 24 hours. It’s uncanny. We may have fleshed out the arguments, but it was all there from the start: Party movement, camera controls, resting system, reaction system, wizards learning Bless, etc…

In the end, the day 1 timeframe unfortunately tells us little to nothing. But since the game in this thread is wild speculation…

Baldur’s Gate 3 will have a day/night cycle, confirmed a thousand percent. You will all see my genius when I’m right. (If I’m not, then … uh … this is secretly a sock puppet account owned by RagnarokCzD)

So destroying entire cities and torturing and murdering millions is "spicing things up" for you?

Thank you for following up on the suggestion! But, but, but, maybe the mythical first day is not 2020-10-06, but 2019-06-06, the date BGIII was first announced (source: wikipedia). The first message in this thread says "... a certain secret that he kept from the very announcement of the role-playing game". So that would be 2019-06-06, right? Hopefully this does limit options for speculation. However, I have no idea where the announcement might have been discussed at that time, in writing.

My money is on Drizzt's inclusion as the big reveal.

Yes.

Eh, Lolth might have been hot doo-doo back in 2nd or 3rd but 5th edition has seen her shrink rather...aggressively in stature as a deity. The retcons where the Udadrow/Aevendrow/Lorendrow stuff was introduced basically retroactively erased most of their presence in the underdark of Toril as a whole. A cult that Lolth hoodwinked into isolating themselves in a singular city in the underdark while drow with better sense (which is and apparently always was a majority) avoided. Meanwhile Lolth's motivations-,multiversal conquest, revenge against the Seldarine, shaping the drow through the brutal crucible of drow religion and society to be a reflection of herself, ambitions of drowing surface elves and humans into worship of herself....has eroded via the books into from what I can gather could best be described as 'lol, chaos' and ennui.

Plus y'know. aforementioned singular city where her worship is centered is
As happy as I am to see she has something of a role in BG III (at least when you play a 'Lolthsworn' drow/cleric of Lolth), I am doubtful of 5e's version of Lolth to hold down the position of overarching villainess of the setting in her current state unless things drastically change.

Maybe, but I don’t think that is the sort of thing that Swen would be just dying to reveal.

Agreed, it’s something bigger. If we’re betting - my money would go on something to do with Bhaal. Or bhaalspawn. Or re-visiting major location from previous games.

Hmm, maybe Cespenar? lol 😂

Id be stoked for a reimagined revisit to Durlag’s Tower. THAT would be cool.

Durlag's tower was neat, but the problem with it was that half the content in Throne of Bhaal ended up in essentially a side dungeon irrelevant to the main plot, and the final leg of the Bhaalspawn Saga really came out the worse for it IMO. I wouldn't want Larian to fall into a similar trap.

This would not be so far-fetched, after all, the Illithids managed to infiltrate Durlag's tower in the past. Maybe this time they have it completely under control and turned it into another outpost similar to Moonrise Towers? The Elder Brain surely still knows the secret passages and entrances as well as the positions of the traps that have been disarmed in the meantime. Even Ketheric could have simply sent his peep-eye with his undead servants through the corridors to track down the remaining traps.

If we can't visit Durlag's Tower, then maybe one of the other places like Gullykin or Beregost. I'd also like to beat the crap out of Xvarts and Tasloi again.


Could it be that you have confused Durlags Tower with Watcher's Keep?

But I think I know what you mean. On your adventure journey in BG 1, you could easily detour to a ruin that you thought was just another ruin. In BG 2 with Watcher's Keep, of course, it was very different, since you now knew you were a child of Bhaal, either hunting for Irenicus and Bodhi or the other Bhaalspawn, and for the most part not out in the wilderness stumbling upon yet another ruin. Here I would have liked to see a small leading event, such as meeting a traveling merchant, that would have pointed it out to us.

You are thinking of Watcher’s Keep, not Durlag’s Tower.

Drizzt as an Origin character?

I very much approve of this line of thinking. If it’s accurate, then we don’t need to find the actual conversation to narrow the options quite a bit.

Anything on the forefront of the fanbase’s mind must have had to do with either DOS:2 or BG2. I’m guessing the conversation was half “will you fix this issue that DOS:2 had?” and half “will it be like BG2 in this cool way?”.

Among issues with DoS2, not many could be a significant surprise. I swear, if Swen had a good inventory in his back pocket this whole time… But, you know, a day/night cycle could fit the bill. Prophecies aside, it could be any cool piece of tech they got working early on in development that solved a key issue they had in their engine.

Among cool stuff in BG2, real time with pause comes to mind. Or it could be some version of story/lore/character continuity between BG2 and its “sequel”. Or, my final guess, some version of random encounters/camp encounters. That could be the result of some cool tech, and fits the bill for something that the players have been asking for since the very beggining.

My guess is that the first announcement mainly rekindled fond memories people have of the previous Baldur's Gate games. So that would mean that among the first responders thoughts like 'will the next game have feature X that I liked so much in BG1 or/and BG2?' would have been prevalent.
The Boo/Minsc beans have already been spilled. And Drizzt can't return because I killed him for his sabres, that was years ago. What else could it be?

Day and Night cycle.
But I don't have too much expectations because I'm usually not really in line with Swen about "cool" things.

What about an elaborate crafting system or Artificier class or both? I would love it.

Since Larian are so giddy about it, it's likely systems-related. Clever systems are more important than world building or storytelling, after all.

A "Divinity mode" that erases the remains of D&D rules from the game and replaces them with fun mechanics, more slapstick and an increased Shove distance. Panel from Hell: "We wanted to give players the best possible D&D game".

I'd put my money on a DM client though. It would be a major feature and doesn't DOS already have that?

I hope it's a "Core Rules Mode" that plays like actual D&D.

I agree with folk who think this must be plot, and probably end game, related. I just can’t see why something that wasn’t intended as a plot twist or surprise story reveal would need to be kept secret for years, and why players would only find out about it after the release, if that part of the quote mentioned by the OP is an accurate representation of what Swen said.

As to what it might be, there seem to be so many possibilities. It does seem reasonable that it’s something tied to earlier games and/or the wider FR setting given apparently folk were talking about it from the start. Possibly something to do with why we’re suddenly seeing a nautiloid when apparently they were meant to be long gone or at least vanishingly rare?

I don't think it has to be plot-related.

There is still a lot that we don't know about in terms of game features/mechanics. This includes both specific rules-related features (Subclasses and Races that will be in the game, spells that will or will not be in the game, Ready and Dodge actions, etc) and more general video-gamey features (max level, number of companions, Day/Night cycles or not, how difficulty modes will be handled, etc). Yet Larian has had the game more or less feature-complete since Patch 7 (if I remember correctly), with each feature being in progress toward "done".

In short, Larian has been extremely stingy with information related to game features/mechanics. It seems as if they like the idea of surprising players with the game features that will be in the game (I think that if you want prospective players to (pre-)purchase your game, you should be transparent about what will or won't be in it, in terms of specs/features/etc, but that doesn't seem to be their stance).

As a result, I wouldn't be too surprised if Swen's "big secret" turns out to be a feature/mechanics, rather than a plot point.


As for the exact things Swen said, that the original poster referred to, I think it comes from this interview.

Cheers for sharing that. I notice the interview doesn’t actually say that the secret won’t be revealed until full release, only that it’s about the full release and hasn’t been revealed yet. That does potentially change things, and mean that it could be something that’s not necessarily a spoiler, like a mechanic.

And in that case, I have no idea what it might be!

I' m starting to fear that the big surprise is that there will be not much left of Baldur's Gate once we arrive there:😅
The Cult tries to get their hands on runepowder, the Ironhand Gnomes already have some of it (and plan to use it), and everybody is heading towards Baldur's Gate.
Including Shadowheart and the mysterious artefact, of which I hope it is not the D20 of doom.
(And I hope nobody notices Gale's condition and tries to use him as a living bomb)

Just kidding, I think that, most likely, we can prevent that parts of the swordcoast are going to be destroid (if the information we get about the destructiveness of runepowder is correct, and it is really that devastating).

Cool, just like that Mass Effect trailer, who do you choose to save. I don't know if that would cause the kind of day 1 fervor that Swen seems to be implying but I think all the doomsday weapons we've encountered in the EA is bound to be a part of it.

We've already speculated that we wouldn't be getting a proper Baldur's Gate experience, with the city being under siege or something else equally stultifying, but the Minsc teaser trailer had some nice shots of the city which was encouraging. At least we'll be involved in it's destruction...fingers crossed.

I don't really think this is the thing Swen was talking about, but I'm currently at Grymforge and couldn't help but notice that there is an awful lot of explosives in this game 😄

I'll keep my fingers crossed we get to visit an undestroyed Baldur's Gate; from what I saw in the trailer, the city looks beautiful.
And my character had been invited to quite a few pints in Baldur's Gates famous taverns.

Maybe we'll be on a ship with our companions and it gets attacked! And then we have to choose who to sav..wait a minute..

Abdel is the Absolute. Hehehe.

If there will be a person behind the Absolute ...
And if this person wont use our dreampartner model ...

I think Sven should be the Absolute.

BG3 releases also on Mobile, Switch, and Pads.
Larian reveals the BG3 world creator. We can now make our own adventures and NPCs so Larian doesn't have too.
BG3 compatible with VR sets.
The TRIP mechanic. After shoving them, trip them into a new shove like effect.

I don't really understand why something they "can't wait to reveal" would be plot related. A plot is like that by definition - secret and has to remain so. A teaser about secret plot twists doesn't make sense since they are expected anyway. Also, the vast majority of players aren't so well versed in FR lore that they would even get it or care. Like if it turns out that....


...or something major and cool like that for FR fans.

1varangian, something I've kind of realized about a lot of fantasy creators, a realization spurred on by being a fan of Brandon Sanderson to be specific, is that they are often just as nerdy as their fans are. I have no doubt there's plenty of story stuff that he is suuuuuper excited to talk to fans about and see their reactions for. Plus another thing worth bringing up is that Sven didn't actually say that it's a thing he's going personally reveal when the game comes out.

But the thing Vincke is most excited about for the full 1.0 release is still a big secret. "I got a thing, and I can't talk about it. So I've been sitting on this thing for years already, so I'm going to be so happy when that thing is going to be out there," he says, grinning. "I just hope people are going to like it because I think it's really cool. Since day one - since day one - I saw people say something, and I said 'Oh my God. I wish I could tell them...'"

He's just excited for people to see it when the game launches. Which I think is a very important distinction to something he wants to reveal.

What is Sven generally excited about ? What does he generally find cool ? We might have a hint there.

I don't remember Sven being excited by former BG lore or FR setting.

But rather about fun or spectacular mechanics (like shove or flying)... or about celebrities involved ? (JK Simmons, Matt Mercer...)
Because of these words : "I just hope people are going to like it because I think it's really cool. Since day one - since day one - I saw people say something", I do not think it is about other celebrities.

So what about things like mounted fight or just mounts to move on the map ? (horse and flying creatures) and/or a fight in Avernus between hell bikes ?

Do you remember other things Sven was really excited to talk about in the previous interviews ?

Mounts definitely are not happening. The maps are specifically designed to be traversed on foot. If they were adding mounts then the maps would be larger and more spread out.

Yeah, I love the idea of mounted combat in D&D crpgs like BG etc, but BG III clearly isn't built with the intention of that being a feature. The more I think about it, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if there was more celebrities &/or Fanservice though. Mercer's involvement + wouldn't surprise me if that CritRole connection gets further pushed. Aside from that I could see more party members/cameos from the first two BG games. Minsc and Jaheria were a big hype-building reveal, so something of that magnitude being held back is a good yardstick to gauge our expectations if it's a character reveal. Since Jaheria and Minsc are heroes, perhaps one or more evil returning characters? Viconia and Edwin would be the obvious inclusions if that was the case.

Moving beyond that, what would generate more hype? IDK. Only Drizzt has the mainstream D&D appeal, but obviously Drizzt himself can't be a companion. Maybe RAS is involve in the writing of the plot somehow...? it could be a possibility, although from what I understand he's been busy dropping a book a year for some time now, so I don't know how much he could feasibly be involved. Still, we have a Baenre drow in-game, and some of the stuff in-game seems to indicate Larian at least got an early draft/memo/heads-up in regards to the upcoming drow retcons/developments that hadn't been revealed yet. So something regarding drizzt/drow/RAS could be possible.

So in summary, if it is story-related, I can see it going down several ways:

1) more celebrity voice actors. Don't know if there are many more out there super associated with D&D though.
2) something CritRole related. build on the hype they gathered by recruiting Mercer.
3) returning BG characters. Seems likely to me some way or another, even if it isn't the specific thing Sven is excited about, no way only Minsc and Jaheria are the only returning cast members.
4) something ras/drizzt related? RAS has collaborated on and written for video games before, and BG I + II had Drizzt cameos. Some aspects of BG III seem to have been written with the drow changes in mind.

Could be other possibilities I'm not accounting for-it is Larian after all, everything is fair game

Day and night cycle. That's what he's referreing to. 100%.
No way it's not about it.

yeah, pages and pages of discussion about how it's nighttime.

Love the positivity lol.

Meanwhile Sven: *EXPLOSIONS AND MEMES!!!*

Menzoberranzan is not the only Drow city. Similarly, it also not the only Drow city that worships Lolth. Menzo is just the one most dealt with in the books before of RA Salvatore and Drizzt.

The actual largest Drow city that worships Lolth is located under Thay and is about 4 to 5 times larger than Menzo.

Meanwhile Sven: " Barrelmancer class is now in the game " ^^

Can't believe it took us 4 pages to uncover the truth.

Or guns.
Guns everywhere.
Mini guns, machine guns etc.

(I suspect artificer will be the next actual barrelmancer)

Oh I'm aware. At least in the past that was the case. Hell Menzo was a third-generation Drow city and not all that large by their standards IIRC my drow lore correctly (I thought the one underneath Calimshan was the biggest, but I wasn't keeping track), but all that got retconned. The new lore recontextualizes everything to the point that drow cities outside Menzoberranzan are of doubtful canonicity. Like the 'udadrow' (what they are calling lolth-following drow as we knew them previously) are defined as a cult that she hoodwinked into sequestering themselves in the underdark so she could control them. That is Menzoberranzan under the new lore. Just one city-state. Now maybe WoTC will re-canonize the other cities. But right now Udadrow(or Lolthsworn drow as they call them in BGIII) means from Menzoberranzan.

Maybe more in depth backgrounds (there is only one atm and you don't chose it).

Fully voiced custom character.

Day night cycle.

More in depth conversations which include companions.

Could be something predictable like dragonborn...yep

Edit2* still crossing my fingers for gensai

I think the secret is that Boo has been the big bad in BG1 and BG2 and in BG3 he gets his alpha form (a giant giant mini space hamster).
Just ask yourself who has been controlling the lump of muscle all this time.

IIRC fully voiced main characters were a thing in the early datamines, but afaik the idea was dropped. Never say never though I guess?

Hehe. Yup. These are what qualify as "awesome" in the game for Swen.

If the main character was silent I would be exstatically overjoyed.

There's still quite a few that WotC is talking about. Guallidurth, the city under the Calim desert, isn't much bigger than Menzo in 5E time frame (only about 50% larger), but was much larger than Menzo in the past. But both still pale in comparison to the city that is under Thay (can't find the name of it) which at it's height was well over 100k Drow and about 500k slaves (Menzo at it's largest was around 20k Drow and 60k to 70k slaves and Guallidurth was around 80k, not sure if that's combined or just drow).

And the other two "Drow" groups I really wouldn't consider Drow as the one is the Starlight Elves (northern group) and I can't remember what the southern one is, but the southern one is closer to that of Green/Wild Elves (which the Drow were originally Green Elves) and are more like Wood Elves in mentality. The Lolthsword Drow are by far the largest group that remains of the "Green" Elves.

Same

Hmm I was thinking again about what might have been debated at the very beginning. In BG 1 & BG 2, there was only the classic adventurer-hero route. Sure, you could make evil decisions up to a certain point in-game, but in terms of the main story, you really only ever destroyed the bad guys and were hailed as a hero. What if Baldur's Gate 3 breaks that tradition, which is very possible with the tadpole and knowledge we currently have about it, is much more aligned and supportive of an evil plot route. What if Baldur's Gate 3 can be played in addition to the hero route leaning towards Obsidians "Tyranny"? That would indeed be a surprise for all those who are toying with the murder hobo route. And yes the current criticisms about missed EA opportunities of a murder hobo style may have been intentional as it is still to remain a secret.

I have seen something ...


So ...
Maybe the big secret is the amount of differences between EA and 1.0

I know there’s a good chance you weren’t being serious, but for context here’s why this type of reveal is unlikely: ask yourself “Why in the hell would they need to keep it secret if that was a feature they were adding to the game?”.
This would be advertised to hell and back as a feature.

I’m afraid that the people suspecting some “meme stuff” are a lot more close to nailing what Swen would promote as a big, exciting surprise.

After more thought I'm now convinced it's some ridiculously OP crafting system that allows you to make bombs from a piece of string and some plant that grows everywhere. Or combine potions to make some inane haste+heal+bless aoe bombs.

Surely the crafting system of 5e needs to be fixed since it's not broken.

Didn't Larian state that they would keep crafting very tame in the past?

The point of these posts is to passive aggressively throw shade on Swen and Larian. Don’t take them at face value.

I would prefer if we could keep crafting to a minimum. Why did it become a neccessity instead of a fun gimmick? I find it tedious and I would really appreciate if I could fully ignore it without having to suffer for it.

I expect potions at least-Larian has put a lot herbs, crystals and flowers etc in-game that could work very well for thar role. I'm not expecting something like NWN2's armor/weapon crafting system though.


Drow being originally Green Elves is not exactly 100% canon. If you take the Lady Penitent series to heart, then yeah maybe you could interpret that way since they have both been describe in similar physical terms IIRC. But Drow/Green Elves being their own separate subspecies distinct from the Green Elves has ample precedence before and after that series. Plus the whole 'Curse of Ham' thing with the literal blood taint that particular series decided to run with made lots of people uncomfortable at the time and absolutely would not fly today.

Have WOTC talked about any non-Menzo cities post the whole Udadrow/Aevendrow/Lorendrow debacle? Their new history/definition of the drow leaves very little wiggle room to interpret vast sprawling underdark cityscapes spread around Toril. The wording they use makes it clear that Menzo=udadrow and that the Lorendrow/Aevendrow are the 'good' equivalents to that city state. Note stuff like the Lorendrow being an open surface-dwelling city in southern Faerun that doesn't try to hide but is safe from the Spider Queen because of it's *geographical distance* from Menzoberanzan. Which makes no damn sense if cities like Guallidurth or the nation of Dambrath were canon, because Southern Faerun is(was) an absolute bastion of ancient and powerful drow holdings. It's also 100% clear in the new canon that the Lolth-worshipping drow originate from Menzo, and it was Lolth's fault for tricking them underground (specifically to found Menzo) rather than the Crown Wars origin. Menzo is only a few thousand years old btw, which mean drow as we know them are basically a blip on the radar in terms of FR history now.

I’ve seen enough of Sven to think he is a simple man (good thing) who gets excited over things like shiny armor and cheese!

The only mechanical thing I can think would spur this kind reaction from Swen would maybe be the world map. It's something that would be revealed relatively early and would far exceed most people's expectations based on the EA

I'm liking this.
Would be great to get a peak and idea of the general world lore with the map. Something that is dreadfully missing in this EA of a game, a firm Faerun lore foothold to get us involved in this world. I am not immersed when I play BG3, well not as much as I would like to be.

In this game, I'd rather have a fully voiced one, the close ups mime shots are strange. Ya, I heard the same about it being dropped, would be a lovely surprise if it wasn't though, well see.

Overall, my bet is that what Sven is indicating is likely how everything ties back to the situation with BG1 and BG2. It's pretty much a given that with how the various DoS games have eluded to, the protagonist(s) end up saving the world in some way, either becoming guardians (DOS) or setting someone up as the guardian (your protagonist, one of your companions, the antagonists - DOS 2), so I see the same kind of thing happening with BG3 (even in BG2:ToB you had the option to either let the antagonist take the power, keep the power for yourself, or let the power disperse). Same situation setup I see going here with BG3 where Larian re-hashes their typical endings from DOS 1 and/or 2.


Thing is, they're still keeping a fair amount of Greenwood's world information. Afterall, they backtracked on the lore and happenings of 4E (killing all the Drow gods off except for Lolth and Ghaunaduar since it's more than a Drow god) which lends a lot to keeping various information found in the *Drow of the Underdark* from both 2E and 3E/3.5E. If you go back through that information, which WotC hasn't completely gone off the deep end like Disney did, can still go back on the old information and pull it forward and that old information does point specifically at Green Elves becoming the Drow when they were fighting against the Gold Elves when the Gold Elves almost destroyed some of the other Elven sub-groups. In order to fight back, the Green Elves turned to Lolth and demons to fight back against the Gold Elves even though the Seldarine also were fighting against the Gold Elves as well and assisting the other Elven sub-groups. Because of the tactics of the Green Elves and the overall destruction that was happening to the Elves overall and the fact that the Gold Elves were willing to return to the Seldarine even though it was there actions that lead to the war between all the Elves that the Seldarine then cursed the Green Elves turning them into the Drow and left the Drow with only the option of continuing to follow Lolth and thus went underground into the Underdark.

The other thing to realize is that WotC with 5E have really limited the scope of Toril that they actually talk about with it centering around the Sword Coast area of Faerun and not really dealing with other areas. It's known that there's a very large above ground Drow populus out in the Dalelands. Though, because WotC is concentrating on the Sword Coast, that isn't brought up in 5E much. WotC would rather try to push in MtG settings into D&D instead of using the existing world settings they have access to. So I wouldn't say that it's really WotC changing things around a lot, but instead ignoring what is out there already (this is why if you go to *Dungeon Master's Guild*, you'll find a lot of written material for 5E from Ed Greenwood and others for the Faerun setting outside of the situation in the Sword Coast).

In the early days, right after the first trailer dropped, all I remember is the discussion centered around BG2's unfinished quest involving the Illithids in the sewers under the Temple District. And that quest's connections with truncated Jan Jansen's quest-line involving the Hidden.Everyone seemed to think Larian was planning to play off the loose threads as one way to connect BG3 to the previous installments.Who knows really? But, I imagine that it's something story related, otherwise there's no need to be too secretive.

I'm aware of the Drow's previous history, you don't need to recite back to me the entire history of the Crown Wars and the Descent, lol. If you read other sourcebooks and novels though, the definitely distinguish between the dark elves and the green elves both culturally and physically. And the nature of the curse is more ambiguous with other authors as well. Some sources suggest that the drow were never transformed at all.

The thing about welcome moderate rollback of the awful ideas of 3e/4e (killing the Dark Seldarine off, for one) is that this occurred at the start of 5e, and the more recent drow changes came after that and supersede that. So when WoTC says udadrow come from Menzoberranzan, that udadrow are defined as the Lolth-worshipping drow of the underdark, that Menzoberranzan was founded by an isolated cult only a few thousand years ago and imply that most drow never followed and still don't follow Lolth, when the descriptions of the new non-lol-worshipping city states conspicuously ignore the existence of pre-established drow enclaves and populations of both lolth-worshipping and non-lolth-worshipping drow, I don't think it's a matter of WoTC's typical attitude of just not being interested in fleshing out areas of the Realms. They merely rewrote the entirety of drow culture without regard to prior canon-and their new canon views the drow as being divided into three flavors easily defined by their association with a specific city-state. There is no question that the Drow's role as villains has shrunk. And that's not even getting to the metaplot stuff with the revolution in Menzo, or how even before the recent retcons, there was precious little outside of the return of the Seldarine that was actually meaningfully repaired (all the cities destroyed in the War of the Spider Queen+4e were still gone)

As for Greenwood and the DMG, nothing he posts on his patron, his youtube, or anything he publishes on the DMG is strictly canon, as far as WoTC treats it. He's a superb world-builder, but I haven't seen much indication pretty much since 5e launched that he's still part of their creative team in any meaningful way/ Much less whatever Larian is cooking up.

Yes, meme stuff is more likely.
I wasn't being serious 100%, but a part of me wants to believe it.

Based on a certain thing that was dropped here a while ago, which, to be far, could have been just an independent artist's own creation, I have a suspicion that the "surprise" could be...


...or it could just be references to the Bhaalspawn and maybe even an ability to "customize" them in a KoTOR 2 fashion where you picked Revan's gender and Force side in a conversation early on. Could use Volo and his lack of credibility for that, so it doesn't turn into Jaheira and Minsc having memory issues about their famous lover/friend?

It might just be something like: Withers is *actually* Jergal!

That's something they'd want to wait for folks to know, and it was a big speculation point back around day one.

Then the Grand Arbiter he mentions is Ao, which makes sense. But if he supports us at the behest of Ao himself, that's also an imposant plot that should live up to the rest of the implementation. That would be a very high claim from Larian, against which they then have to be measured themselves. I mean it's a strange feeling to somehow be in the favor of not just any god, but Ao himself. Very bold.

I would say either outrageous meme or some really dark twisted story stuff that breaks taboos

Let's play the what it has a good chance to be and what it wont be. Based from memory of what I read when it was first announced, and partially from what I was curious myself:

Good Idea: Unannounced playable characters from BG1 or BG 2: Viconia, Jahira, Minsc (am I the only one wanting Edwin(a)?)
Bad Idea: Unannounced playable Characters from BG Enhanced Editions/Dragonspear: Because few (no one?) want to play as M'khiin, Baeltoh, or Hexxat

Good Idea: Bringing back characters that everyone enjoys from the previous games/FE lore: Drzzt, Elmenster, Boo, etc
Bad Idea: Bringing back Mizhena

Good Idea: Bringing back play elements from DnD BG1/2: active combat, rolling characters, and other DnD elements that used to be present in the game
Bad Idea: Trying to teach people Thac0.

Good Idea: the characters/npcs have lineage connected to the game: tadpole resistance= Bhaalspawn lineage, Bhaal is the Absolute
Bad Idea: the characters/npcs have lineage connected to the game: Wilson = Owlbear's daddy