Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Shove/push ruin the game and I'm angry !

Not to defend it but there is a trade off in this particular fight for just spamming shove, you miss out on everyone’s loot. If they let us destroy plot items this way it might actually be an interesting little handicap.

The worst aspect of shove for me is that seeing memes and clips of bosses like Ragzlin being cheese-shoved into a hole, and knowing while playing I could do it myself if I wanted to, lessens the entire game into a something of a joke. I can't take these characters seriously anymore because everything really is just a joke or a meme.

The slapstick style gameplay undermines storytelling. It's like a Monty Python movie suddenly trying to present a serious dramatic scene - it just won't have any impact. This is part of why I'm criticizing Larian for weak game direction. You can't be everything at once and all over the place with different styles and genres.

i thik we all made a misstake in thinking that larian is allowed to listen to us WotC hates us so they probalt forcing Larian into making bad decisions like push jump and the annoying companions.

What?

I don't think Larian is influenced by Owlcat, probably more in the other direction.

Look, Larian thinks the shove thing is funny. And for new players who have not played D&D that's probably true. For the rest of us I hope there is a toggle for it, otherwise it's getting modded out - probably with a pack that enforces core rules.

I am very late to the party, but I agree, Shove should be an action.

I use it very rarely, only when I think it makes sense, e.g. when the opponent is standing on the brink of a cliff.
(Most times, I don't even try it with my player characters, because my strength 8 Tavs would only manage to make their enemies laugh. And why get your hands dirty when you can cast thunderwave?)

Action would be nice ...
But personaly i dont mind it being Bonus Action.

Cruicial part is range tho ...
That should be adjusted without a debate.

And the game should provide some way for beginners to see danger zones ...
Something like when you turn it on, edges are painted red for the whole reach where you can be one-shoved.
This alone should also help Larian to see how ridiculous it sometimes is.

First bg3 MOD I'll get is :

NO MORE SHOVE.
Game gets instantly more interesting and fun.

Probably the single most impactful change to gameplay. (Problem being, enemies also uses it).

Anyways, Shove should be quite easy to mod edit to whatever people wants it to be. Probably why Larian just doesn't care at this point.

You mean something like this that clearly shows you that you can't stand on half the combats arena ?

Yup.

The reason is simple ...
Main problem people had with Shove (as much as i remember) was that they though they are safe, when they are "so far from the edge" ... but the game thought otherwise.

Such tool would help both new players to better understand danger zone ...
And more importantly Larian so they can easily realize that there is no safe zone in their design.

Perhaps I'm the only one who likes the shove system. I'm not a newcomer to D&D or CRPGs. In fact, it has always been a feature I desired because it made certain abilities that push enemies away more useful. Moreover, from my experience, I have always been the one to use and almost abuse this mechanic rather than being subjected to it. By using shove, thunderwave, pushing attack, etc., it becomes easy to win most encounters. Just position your companions well, avoiding placing them near the edges of cliffs. Defeating the hag by becoming invisible and pushing her off is definitely a cheesy tactic, but it's fun for me at least.

Losing the loot does seem like a good penalty to balance the power of this mechanic, similar to how Disintegrate (Black Blade of Disaster etc) worked in Baldur's Gate 2.

In most situations there's no loot to loose except a crappy weapon or item. And even with some bosses like the Matriarch, you just don't loose anything.
It does not really "balance" anything and it is not a high level spell you'll use wisely : it is a common bonus action.

Just look at the screenshot above for distance. Not sure anyone would consider that the entire red area as being "near the edges of cliffs"... Especially if you consider in game units of measurement.

For trash encounters, you don't necessarily need to throw enemies off cliffs to win. You can simply shorten the duration of the fight, save some resources, and still have fun. However, if you do push Minthara off, you would indeed miss out on a significant loot. It's a trade-off that players need to consider when deciding whether to utilize the shove mechanic in such situations.

As for the distance, I can agree that it could be adjusted, perhaps decreased. However, it is important that the shove mechanic reflects factors such as the strength of your character and the weight of the enemy, which I believe are already taken into consideration.

Athletics affect your resistance to being showed i think, not sure it got implmented but i know it was being discussed, so it is dependent on your strength stat, wich is a good thing...

As alot of people pointed out in this thread, it sohuld be a action and not bonus action... and hopefully we will see this fixed in august !

Athletics affect your chance to shove and your chances not to be shoved.
Acrobatics influence your chances not to be shoved if higher than your Athletic bonuses.

The weight of characters affect both. I agree that what's happening "off screen" is working well.


This may be true, eventually... but it's all about metagaming.

This may be true, eventually... but it's all about metagaming.[/quote]


Let's say it's partly based on that and partly on the player's intuition to understand which is a trash encounter and which is a challenging battle that could have valuable loot.

I wish it was true.

Sadly, my experience say it dont really matter where you stand ... i spend litteraly half of my movement speed (12m? not sure) to stand far from edge in Grymforge-Nere+Duergars batte ... and they still managed to shove me to lava. :-/ Im sory, but that is just not fun.

I mean, even if that was true, shove would still be quite anoying ... since when i spend my precious spellslot to put group of Goblins to sleep, i want them to sleep at least one round ... not litteraly to next turn, when another Goblin wakes them up and is still able to attack me. :-/
But it would be at least little more bareable.

That encounter in Grymforge can be approached in numerous ways, both based on your roleplay and combat tactics. Of course, positioning yourself on the elevated bridges allows for an easy resolution of the encounter. However, I must say that I also enjoy engaging in close combat and letting the enemies use the same tactics against me. It adds an extra layer of excitement and challenge to the battle.

I understand the effect it has on countering sleep. However, it's also true that your precious spell slots are of 1st level. Overall, I still see more pros than cons in this management of the shove mechanic. I could agree with reducing the throwing distance a bit and making shove an action.

Which mean you could agree with most shove complainers. That's what we are asking for since 2 years, nothing more.

Disintegrate, finger of death, Stinking Cloud and other AoE that wouldn't aggro enemies if they were beyind sight, exaploding arrows.

BG1&2 has quite a few rough edges - there is a reason Disintegrate and Finger of Death don't work like they used to. An in my opinion for the better.

Even so, those were high level spells, selling a power that wields a powerful spellcaster - they late progression rewards, and could be used only sparingly. Push, however, is available to anyone with high enough strength and can be used in everyturn, while performing all the other attacks one wants.


@Rag! I think your account was hacked.

I didn't understand what you meant, please explain further. However, it's true that spells like Disintegrate are high-level spells, but it's also true that enemies can use shove. Therefore, I don't see what the problem is. Furthermore, all the game maps are structured with verticality, making it quite likely that you have the ability to throw down your opponents. In practice, though, it's a mechanic that enemies use much less frequently than you can.