Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Starting Equipment

I really don't mind starting even naked as long as basic starting equipment like Chain Mail or even just Ring Mail will be available in the tutorial. Why are heavy armor users punished so hard in EA? Then on the other hand Lae'zel gets a Half-Plate which shouldn't be available. Why doesn't she get a Githyanki Scale Mail equivalent? It's dumb you are encouraged to take her armor and look like a Gith, and that she would willingly part with her armor in the first place. Just because there is one vastly superior armor available while basic options are missing entirely.

Appropriate weapons are also needed rather than forcing everyone to have the same starting weapon regardless if they are finesse, dual wield, two handed weapon or whatever. All spellcasters getting a staff is so cliche as well. Most would very likely prefer a finesse or ranged weapon. At least you can loot Light Crossbows in the tutorial.

I’m not really following you here. Yes, agreed many cRPGs players, myself included, spend hours on character creation but I’m not sure what that has to do with starting gear, particularly as your suggestion for dealing with it seems to be pretty much what I meant when I said above …


Perhaps you’d not seen that, or I wasn’t clear about how I saw that working. Or I’m still misunderstanding your point.

(Though as a matter of fact I’m fine with the starting armours, and don’t see any real need to change them as they are pretty generically suitable for their classes even if not ideal, whereas weapon choice feels more individual. But I’d also be fine if our characters were put in generic clothing or nothing at all. Though as a side note, hopefully the game will actually leave it up to us to determine what our PCs were doing when they were kidnapped rather than assuming they were doing something that called for civilian gear.)

This sounds acceptable ...
Either that, or we could have drop them ... i dont think the game needs to explain everything.
After all, even those guards had no weapons and Lae'zel in later part when she finaly gets out have also none.

I was more against that "naked in pod" or "no items at all" idea, wich was allready mentioned in the past few times.

This makes much less sense to me tho ...

Well ...
You are not against it tho, are you?

So ... basicaly Larian have here this suggestion, where some people dont really care, and others it would make very happy ... basicaly there is nobody against it ... as far as i know.
I think that alone should push Larian to at least think about it ... how else make your game even more popular amongs players, then by listening to feedback that have only neutral or positive responces in comunity?

Anyway, about extra work ... i would boldly dare to say that we all are fully aware (even tho not all of us likes it as it sometimes seem) that Larian "dont really need to do anything".
So, sory if it sounds harsh ... but i think such argument is not valid ... it will allways be Larian decision in the end, no matter how much, or how many of us, would want anything.
They asked what we want, this we want. :P
Now, as we in czech say: "the ball is on their half of field".

There are two major problems:
1) Our Tav is not necesarily a Baldurian ...
2) We dont really know under what circumstances we were kidnapped ...

Ad 1
- If you play Drow / Deep Gnome / or some other datamined Races that i shall not name so i dont have to cut this to spoiler tags ... place of your origin is Underdark, not Baldur's Gate ...
- If you play Githyanki ... place of your origin is Astral Place, not Baldur's Gate ...

Also the only equipment that makes sense (to me) for your Githyanki character to wear is exactly the same armor Lae'zel have, and yes that includes all Classes ... since Githyanki are profficient with Medium Armor, it dont interfere with their spellcasting, so it makes sense (again, to me at least) that even their Wizards would went into Faerun equipped for combat.
Especialy if we take under concideration that Githyanki are extremely xenophobic, and concider everything else to be inferior.
Personaly i wouldnt mind at all if my starting Githyanki Armor would have "just 13AC" ... this is matter of style, not numbers.

Also, this is one of reasons why i honestly hope we will be able to transmogrify our gear ... prefferably with no restrictions for Armor types ... since i highly doubt that there will be as much Medium Armors with bonuses suitable for Wizards, as there will be robes, but i would REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like to have my super-xenophobic Githyanki equipped in their Half-Plate, no matter the class.

I know it would allow Paladins to wear Bathrobe (oh im sorry, Wizard robe) ... or Wizards to wear Plate Armor ... but honestly? I dont care, who wants to mess with this will mess with this trough mods ... so i see no harm there.

But i digress ...

Ad 2
Since we dont really know where, or when we were kidnapped ... i would dare to speculate that chances we were taken on marketplace during the day, are quite low ... bcs that would mean that Nautiloid allready attacked Baldur's Gate ...
And there is no indication of such thing ...

Astarion, Wyll, Shadowheart, Counsellor Florrick, Grand Duke Ulder Ravengard ... they all are from Baldur's Gate ... but none of them mentioned any problem in City. O_o

Also, if you take it from the other side ... we DO have armor, so its quite clear we were not kidnapped "during a normal day".

Major problem i have with this idea (and no, its also nothing new ... even this was here several times allready) is that it feels incredibly anticlimatic to me. :-/

I would rather like to see something like:
Lets say you get out of the first room and short cinematic starts ... you see group of, i dunno 3-7 Mind Flayer slaves, against 3-7 Ips ... you are standing in the entrance, far from their eyesight, or hearing, therefore nobody notices you as they are fighting for like 3-7 seconds ... sudently something explodes there *poof* all dead ...
But what is it?
One of them had dagger, one of them had quarterstaff, one of them had a shield and mace, one of them had a Longsword ... you get the idea.
You can go and help yourself.

Feels to me like something that would fit the scene much better than "covenient chest next to our prison pods" and the purpose is the same.
After all, there allready is simmilar cinematic little later, when one dragon breaks front part of the ship.

But then they would need to either rework all cinematics ...

OR somehow explain why we are the only naked prisoner.
Were we kidnapped from our bed, in our sleep?

---

Also i think we all are forgeting about MAJOR benefit of starting gear ...
And that is chance to create visually fitting equipment for our characters!

I mean, what kind of gloves actually "fits" to Wizard robe?
What kind of gloves, and boots actually "fits" to Githyanki half plate?
Why our Githyanki isnt equipped with Githyanki gear?
Why our Druids are not alowed to wear those stylish gloves Halsin have? :P
What kind of gloves actually "fits" to Shadowheart armor?
Why Rogue, Ranger, Wizard, Fighter and Cleric still dont have any special gear like litteraly all other classes, but are starting in the same generic trash we loot from every corpse? :-/
Etc.

The models are there ... but we cant get our hands on them sadly. :-(
It would be awesome to have some uses for them, wouldnt it?
Even for limited time ...
That is presuming Larian dont plan to implement some way to change our appearance ... like, gee i dunno, transmogrification? :P
That way no model would be lost no matter what gear we would have, bcs everyone likes something else ... or as my friend say: I want my character to be strong, but not if the cost is to look like idiot.

You are right, we don't know where and in what circumstance we got kidnapped. It seems the only cost-effective way left to implement the starting gear is through UI.

Dunno what exactly do you mean by UI.
I think it should be part of character creation ... just as you decide your background, your apearance, your skills, your ability scores ... there should be another tab, where you can pick your starting gear.

I mean isnt that perfect time to explain new players how different armors and weapons work?

Take Finesse weapons for example ...
Its good to know what they are, but once your character is done ... kinda too late to find about them, isnt it?
I would certainly be kinda frustrated if i would invest points into Str for my Rogue, just to find out later in the tutorial, when my ability scores are allready set, that Dex would do just fine (and even better). :-/

---

Then it would all depend on how creative Larian team indeed is ...
In perfect world, we would get:
- generic armor
- class-specific armor
- some kind of clothing/armor based on background decision (armor if background provides proficiency)
- some kind of clothing/armor based on race (armor if race provides proficiency)
- and some kind of generic clothing

Generic armor we all know, those are things we loot during EA ...
Heavy > Ring Mail Armour
Medium > Chain Shirt / Hide Armour
Light > Leather Armour
Cloth > Simple Robe

Class-specific armor is also nothing new ...
Except for Cleric, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Wizard and Warlock ... they dont have any right now.
(And no, i will not stop complaining about this. :P )

Background armor/clothing can be tricky ... so i would certainly understand why Larian would leave this out.
But i dont think we need anything super crazy, it would just be nice to have some kind of cowl for Hermit ... generic amor with some kind of crest for Soldier ... some shirt and pants for Sailor ... shool uniform for Acolyte ... fain clothing for Noble ... ripped clothing for Urchin ... stuff like that.
And best part? Those things could be used for NPCs! So it wouldnt be wasted work.

Race armor is something i would also understand if Larian would leave ... especialy if we dont get any way to transmog our gear. Wich would be shame.
On the other hand tho, if we would! <3
Call me crazy if you want, but my Dwarf would never, ever, EVER, switch his "properly made dwarven steel".

Anyway, i certainly think that this should apply at least on those races wich are somehow special, or specific ... meaning certainly Githyanki, probably Drow, maybe Dwarves, with clear distinction for Duergars (if they will be playable) bcs Duergars have quite differnt approach craft from other Dwarves, Dragonborn (if they will be playable) and Half-Orcs (if they will be playable) ...
Cant really imagine anything specific for Half-Elves, Gnomes, Humans, Halflings or Tieflings ... :-/

And generic clothing are of course things we see on NPCs in the world, especialy on Tiefling refugees ... just dresses, shirts, pants, stuff like that.
Nice thing about this is that clothing from this selection could easily overlap with clothing from Backgrounds, so there wouldnt be ... well, lets say more work than necesary.

I know changes to get this exactly are next to none ... but man can dream. ^_^

//Edit:
Just a small note ... im talking here about MODELS only, ok?
I dont really need 15AC as a started for my Githyanki armor, im perfectly fine with 13, as any other Medium Armor ... what i want, what i need one could say, is option for my Githyanki to look like a Githyanki.
Same goes for Drow, wich also have armor in the game, but its stronger ... i would be perfectly fine having Light Drow Armor with 12AC, just as regular Leather have ... as long as my Drow can indeed look like a Drow!

What really pains my heart is that there is regular brown Leather armor ... then there is exactly the same armor with black sleeves, and its Rogue armor ... and then there is exactly the same armor with green sleeves, and its Ranger armor ... :-/
Oops i did it again!

//Another Edit:
Maybe i should have also said that bare minimum i would concider acceptable ...
Would be Generic armor (wich is allready done) / Class armor (wich i whined about twice allready ) / at least few pieces of regular clothing from NPCs ...
Githyanki and Drow armor would be welcomed bonus.

Yep, exactly. I mean the character creation's user interface, that could add a new tab for gear selection. For Larian, nothing tricky at all here, just need to double the work for console controller integration.

Agree, "Damaged Githyanki Armor" and "Worn Drow Armor", something like that.

To me, I think they can do this:
First, check if Tav was a Gith or Drow or Half-orc;
If true, then the armor always be that "Damaged Gith Armor" or "Worn Drow Armor" or whatever a half-orc style armor could be that has lowered AC value to the basic tier, and weapon to be the damaged or bent version of their culture;
If false, then provide option of A. Armor, B. Boots, C. Weapon;
For A. Amor, let the players to choose from 1. Default Cloth, 2. Leather Armor, 3. Scale Armor, 4. Chainmail;
For B. Boots, choose from 1. Default Shoes, 2. Leather Boots;
For C. Weapon, choose from 1. Default Weapon, 2. Rapier, 3. Scimitar, 4. Club, 5. Warhammer, 6. Salami;
Depends on Tav's class, this Default Cloth could be a commoner shirt, a mage robe, or a barbarian robe; the default Shoes could be a pair of commoner shoes, a pair of Mage Shoes, or a pair of barbarian shoes;
As for the default weapon, just use the current setup in character creation.

Cant really say i would love such options ...
Bcs you still cant really match, but it sounds acceptable.

Still (and sory if this will sound harsh) this looks more like "mod" level of quality, not exactly as official feature.

I can totally imagine that last tab, where we would be picking our starting gear, would be regular character tab ... just as the one we have when we open our character ... and in our inventory there would be some clothing, some armors, and some weapons for us to pick ... no stats, (except for armor, and even that just starting AC) just models.
What we drag on our character, will be what we will have equipped at start of the game.

Yes, this is perfect. I believe I said it in one of my earlier posts that I would rather start with nothing than with gear that my character would never use to begin with. And roleplaying/character creation is a huge part of the game, just like in PnP. It's little things that differentiate a good game from a great game. I'm not saying that if Larian doesn't make this change I'm never going to play this game again blah blah blah... It's a small thing that I believe would have a large impact on the overall quality of life for the game. I mean, if you've looked through these forums, there are plenty of people making arguments that are much more pedantic than this, and making a lot more fuss about it. And honestly, after consideration, I would almost prefer starting with a dagger and common clothes that are just thematically appropriate to your class or background. As mentioned in another post that I'm too lazy to quote, there are plenty of clothing textures in the games that would fit for this, with some slight modifications.

You have to remember that you're playing as an adventurer, which is represented by your class. Regardless of your background, you became an adventurer for one reason or another, which sets you apart from the common folk of Faerún. That doesn't mean that you walk around fully armed and armored all the time, but a dagger would be a great starting weapon because every class can use it and it rational to believe that any adventurer would carry a dagger with them at all times, just in case. Then as you play through the tutorial you find new weapons and armor to properly outfit yourself for the upcoming adventure.

But to everyone who says "Why does it matter, you'll get a better weapon in 30 minutes anyway," you have to realize that this is NOT other CRPG's. This isn't Diablo where you sneeze and a better weapon pops out your ass. In PNP it may be ages before you find something that is actually better than what you start with, because it depends on your playstyle. It doesn't matter if you find a Battleaxe of Badassery + 3 right off the bat, because not everyone is going to use it, or be able to use it. I mean, the Greatsword that Commander Zaulk (or whatever) drops when you kill him is usually one of the first things I sell. I don't usually play fighters that use two handed weapons, and I can't stand adventuring with Lae'zel, so it's nothing more than vendor bait to me, regardless of how good it is.

As someone with over 20 years of experience with PnP games, having your character start with equipment that they never would have used in the first place is annoying to me hurts the immersion. That's why in 5e the starting equipment isn't usually static. You have choices, so that you can tailor the equipment to the character, not the other way around. I do agree with an earlier assertion that finding the right armor/weapon during the tutorial is satisfying, but it would be MORE satisfying if you started with basic equipment and it was an actual upgrade for your character. If you've got nothing but some clothes and a dagger, then finding that first set of leather armor, or that first handaxe or shortword would be more satisfying than going "Well, I have scale mail, but I'm going to go to this leather armor because it's more thematic for my character." Most of the time, the gear that you're using is going to be based on your playstyle and the thematics of your character more than the actual numbers.

Choosing your starting equipment is just part of character creation in 5e. If someone's character loves spears then I say let them start with a spear. Hopefully it will just be part of the game... otherwise I'll keep using mods.

Choosing your equipment is a classic for all RPG system not just DND or exclusive to 5e. Unless the GM tells you that you are in a TES situation no reason to not include it and given the context of BG3 you character is not a pure blank slate he already had an established background.

Hope I don't need to use a plethora of mods just to make this game close an RPG experience.

I like the idea of starting "stark nekkid".
Regardless where and when abducted, the PC was stripped, washed and podded by the Mindflayers, after all.
Basic armour and weapons should be available as loot on the ship, from the corpses of already dead humanoid minions.

IMO good for storytelling.

Hmmm - I suppose imposing Disadvantages on casters as they lack Material Components of spells would too hardcore?

Starting naked is one of those ideas that as people say "sounds really good on paper" ...
But once you try to implement them, they become pure obstacle and anoyance. :-/

Even if you put aside main difference ... that some classes, like Barbarian, dont really need to wear any armor to be effectively protected ... while other classes, like Paladin, become squishy like a sponge, without their armor ...

You mentioned storytelling.
So take it from that perspective ...

Where would we take our armors and weapons?

There was some suggestions in the past:
- From corpses of minions (as you said aswell) ... ok, but where they took them? I mean, we are on Nautiloid ship ... there is little to zero (at least known to us at this point) reason for them to be armed, they are not there to form an invading force, they are basicaly just packed food for their Mind Flayer masters.
- From a box where they store it ... ok, but why would they store it in the first place? I mean, again we are on Nautiloid ship and we just got our own tadpole ... that means that we are either becoming Mind Flayer, wich dont use weapons ... or we are becoming thrall, respectively food some time later, wich dont need to be armed as we stated abowe ... or we are becoming a True Soul, wich are meaned to infiltrate important positions and work from there ... ok, this last option could use a weapon, but is it really safe to keep it close before we are brainwashed? Nope its not. :-/
- Just laying on the ground around our pod ... ok, but same problem as with the box, what reason in hell would anyone have to after wasting time with disarming us, just to keep the weapon laying around anywhere?
- From infernals that board the ship ... this is a good one, even tho one must argue its really "suspiciously covenient" that in first few minutes we several different classes of enemies ... that will be weak enough for us to kill ... yet equipped well enough ... for us to become equipped well enough.

Nope, from story perspective the only thing that actually makes sense ... is that Mind Flayers are mind dominating species, who dont really care what are you wearing, or if there is weapon in your reach ... bcs the main and in some way only thing they really believe is that they will manage to dominate your mind and force you to do whatever they want from you.
Its true that this mindset didnt pay out few times in the past, but thats different story.

You make good points.

To be fair, mind flayers *do* wear armor. so it's not unreasonable to find a box of different armor types. And as shown by the many pods, they've been collecting (and maybe transforming) people for a while, each of whom might have--and thus leave behind once transformed--gear including weapons. The MFs might keep these weapons to sell or maybe even give to humanoid thralls.

Regardless of the reasons, the MF ship is the tutorial level of the game, so I'm strongly in favor having a box of equipment with pop-up tooltips to help incoming players understand the different types of weapons, armor, and proficiencies, as well as customize their loadout.

I just watched an analysis of the intro and learned - as I had NOT been bright enough to notice - that peeps are teleported into the pods straight off the street.
Hence they could have their armour, weapons, thief's tools, money etc. on them. Teleportation can be odd like that, I suppose :P

Thats the part i cant really agree with ...

Sell? Who are they trading with ... and why?
As far as i know (and feel free to corect me if you have source), the only interaction Mind Flayers ever had with litteraly anyone ... including individuals, or whole nations ... was subdue them to their own will, and enslave them.
Such species would have no use for curency or trade.

Give to humanoid thralls ...
I gues they could ... in matter that there is nothing that would prevent them doing that ... but the same question is in order, why would they do that?

Same can be said about character creation ...

Actually, having such pop-up tutorial tooltips there would be even better, since risk that you will ruin your character by maxing wrong stats would be much lesser!

Also, having separate screen where you pick some gear your character "was wearing during the kidnapping" ... serves same purpose, creates no story colision, and helps us to better express our characters.

There are basicaly no flaws as far as i know!

Mindflayers trading with other races is pretty well established in the setting, as well as making their own and as is arming their thralls. They don't do most of their fighting personally, after all. Finding weapons on dead thralls/killing living thralls for weapons is a highly plausible scenario.

I was trying to google a bit, but didnt find litterally anything about some races trading with Illithids ... wiki says that "beholders, drow, duergar, and other dominant races of the Underdark respects them" ... but that is all.

No matter ...
It still makes most sense to me that they dont really care if we are armed, since we are fully in their control with no way to defend oureselves.
And i still think that starting equipment screen would be win-win situation.

In DOS2 it made sense for equipment to be in another area of the boat. Larian has done this.
You are teleported into the pod, the mindflayers don't care about your weapons, plus they are being chased by red dragons.
Its reasoanble for us to start with our equipment that we can choose per 5 rules.

Indeed. My opinion on this issue has always been that if they aren't going to give us a story reason why our characters just end up with random weapons, then we should be able to pick from the start because otherwise it doesn't make sense why certain characters would have the default weapons.