Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Wolfheart's feedback on QoL

They did, here : https://www.denofgeek.com/games/baldurs-gate-3-dungeons-and-dragons/

“The game is 5th Edition rules, so we’ve been integrating those,” Vincke says of developing BG3’s gameplay. “While there will be a few tweaks here and there, gameplay will feel very true to 5th Edition. The challenge is how we bring that feeling of a Dungeon Master into a virtual space and make a world that feels reactive with stuff that’s not necessarily in the 5th Edition book because it’s relying on the DM to interpret player action.” That challenge is being met by both teams, as they “explore what it means to bring 5th Edition into the virtual space.”

Yes, I don't expect major changes to happen for 1.0. I wish for a balance pass, but that's about it.

I am not gonna dig out interviews, but from what I saw Larian was very open on their willingness to change rules they don't like. They walked back on some of those changes, but I expect the majority of them will stay.

BG3 as is, IS based on D&D 5e. It is not a 100% faithful adaptation, but it is an adaption.

Fair enough, if that is your view, but as stated, i just find it unlikely as 5e actually have the skills, and class abilities to help with some of the QoL features you guys ask for... so i just dont see it happening, and even more so when you go back to BG1 and BG2... and again, you hve both mine and the other persons, statement from Sven himself, they want to keep as true to 5e as they can, bearing in mind BG3 is a computor game, if you feel like magical realm like inventory is 5e or even close to 5e... when as stated they could add a mule for people with animal affinty or skill, or just buy a bag of holding as you did in BG1 and 2... my point is still 5e can solve these things with 5e features with ease and still keep it true to 5e...

I just dont see. realm wide magical instant storage, and i be really supriced if that was somehing Sven added, it dosent feel like a one of his game... but i guess we will see !

Oh ... you mean this. (thanks for diging it tho)
Well, im affraid the key words here are "what worked and what didn’t work". :-/

Bcs when you implement something, and find it boring ... you can aswell easily say it "dont work well" and change it however you wish. :-/
So ... while the game certainly is inspired by 5e ... that doesnt mean in any way that we get something entirely different from what we have now.

Perhaps I'm a bit more cynical. I think it's difficult for reporters to remain uninfluenced by a source and the pressure is magnified if you don't have an editor to back you up. Influencers live a pretty precarious existence - they live by the click. And if some other influencer gets to tour the facilities, gets early access to new features they will lose out.

It's a cycle I've seen again and again. Someone gains an audience because they seem authentic. They start getting privileged access and then . . .

You may be right (I don't really care about wolfheart or follow him at all closely) but I also don't think that makes Wormerine wrong either way. If I were wolfheart, I'd probably make thisnvideo with the same approach. There isn't really a point in asking for the chain system to be changed entirely at this stage, so energy is better put towards trying to get changes that could realistically be included before the release date. I think that even in light of that reasonable approach, he was too kind to the chain system as it stands, but if his integrity has been compromised, then this isn't an ideal indicator of that.

I am not a table-top player so I don't have an opinion on what is and isn't 5e. And what I think is irrelevant - I am not the one making the game, nor have been charting it's direction for the last couple years. After playing Larian previous titles and participating in BG3 Early Access, I just don't expect any sweeping changes at this point.

Greyghost and Wormerine

You may be right that we may not see it but if we don't I will say that Larian ignored one of the most popular threads on it's forums. Don't get me wrong, you may be correct but I tend to irritable when people (not you) encourage me to limit my imagination and my requests to what is possible, probably or easily achievable.

If Larian doesn't deliver I'm prepared to say they screwed up.

We'll see - I'll play the game however it turns out and I'll have fun doing it. Do I think the game will be a true successor to BG 2? No. Do I hope to be proven wrong? Clearly, because I'm still here.

I can appreciate the risk of influencers getting too close to those they comment on, but also can’t see evidence of that in the Wolfheart vid shared. He says that his focus in that particular stream is features that may not be in the (development 1.0) version yet but it might still be possible to introduce, rather than bigger changes that, given where we are in the development cycle, Larian will already have made up their minds about and either built or decided not to incorporate. That seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable topic for a stream, and more likely to be effective in influencing development priorities in the final three months than mixing up this list of smallish QoL changes that could feasibly be added at this late stage with other bigger changes that we may want more but which Larian will already have made their decision whether to implement or not based on earlier feedback.

Personally, I’m still hoping that some of the more fundamental changes requested will be addressed in some fashion in the full release, but I also recognise that, if so, then that’s because Larian have already made them in their dev build and won’t be as a result of new feedback three months from go-live.

5e is built upon a balance between classes, races, stats etc... if you start to undo or remove certain classes, or stats ability to impact the the game, then issues arise... im not against what is being taken up, im saying it can be adressed using 5e as is... and knowing Sven, and the earlier BG games, i find it highly unlikely that larian is going to throw 5e under the buss, espechially as these features exist within 5e... wich again goes back to the videos linked, they want to solve these things in ways that stays true to 5e... id agree with you if there was no other ways, but there is plenty of ways to keep in the spirit of 5e and still adress these things... but as said, i think we will all be supriced in august, as there is alot of things we still not seen... and ultimatly i take Svens word over yours anyday, can this be done within 5e, yes, end of story !

Tell me this why have caster classes when you can just have a endless potion scroll supply with instant access around the corner ?

Agree, there will be huge changes, and its already done, as said, we been playing a alfa, so much things that is comming and i think we will see alot of things changing, take multiclassing, that alone is a huge change in how things will work and how it open up classes ability to do and access things... i also things we will see more magic items, many of then that can adress things like what and how much we can carry, and, magical bags been in all BGs...

But magical instant shared inventories is a huge nono, as it will fundamentally break so many aspects of a RPG and what 5e is... why have caster classes, when you can just have a endless supply of potions, scrolls in a easilly around corner access, it destroy what 5e and these RPGs stand for... so no, this simple cant happen, and i doubt it will i simply cant see that to be a larian or Sven game... for me his games allways been the old school ones, where you stock up, carefully choose what to take or not to take, and then we go to do the "missions" what you have or dont have, is something you change once you return to restock and resupply...

Tell me this why have caster classes when you can just have a endless potion scroll supply around the corner ?

Well, this "nono" is allready there, was allways ben there, and Larian never, ever, expressed any desire to remove it ...
On the contrary, this particular feature (called "magic pockets") was presented as one of first, if not THE first ever QoL feature in game.

So ...
I dare to presume this is one of prime examples of Larian Sandbox style ... its there ... now its up to you if you wish to use it, or ignore it.

There is few reasons ...

1) Caster healing is stronger
2) Scrolls cant be upcasted, and there is not *that much* (even tho still a lot) stronger potions.
3) Drinking potions on your turn takes your Bonus Action ... that may not seem like a big isue, but if you are Berserker barbarian, this means minus one attack ... if you are using Heat Metal, this means you are holding concentration for nothing ... etc, you get the idea.
4) Not all classes are casters, or healers ... so saying classes are meaningless with scrolls and potions is just not true. Show me potion or scroll that gives you expertise, that gives you wildshape, that gives you bardic inspiration, or rage ... see? Classes have their meaning even with unlimited suplies of scrolls and potions.
5) Some people tend to forget this, but ... having classes, is "fun" ... you know, the very reason games exist in the first place.

lol... its there couse its a Alfa, if you think the Alfa is something final, and it isnt using place holders for alot of things lol... let me ask you this, do you think wizards will keep having endless cantrips ?, or you think they will fix this as they did when wizards coud learn all spells... so again alot of things in the alfa, is going to be corected to 5e as much as its possible, then as for QoL features, alot of what you ask for can be adressed with 5e rules amd Larian and Sven has stated, they will try solve these things within 5e...

And lol... caster classes is stronger, oki... let me ask you this why should i bring a healer that can cast a limited number of healing when i can just have a endless number of HEAL potions... you do understand that it dosent matter that a spell is stronger when you more or less have endless potions or scrolls at instant access... then look up heal spell and heal potion, look up cure disease caste or scroll, or restoration etc... i honeslty dont think you beleave yoursel

So yea i been around, i remember when the table top game released a cantrip that healed 1hp, so do you know what happened ?... this is more or less the same issue, just magnified a billion times, your not understanding the domino effect this has across class balance...

So again, why bring caster classes when you can just bring everything they have, with a instant endless supply of potions and scrolls around the corner ?

Then to adress Fun... the magical fun argument, so lets take it up... i agree with you, that games should be about fun, but "fun" is about feeling your needed, or actually can do or be part of the game, lets say you have a group of three warriors and a caster... that caster will not have fun, couse the group will never stop, they will keep pushing couse they wont ever need to stop or rest or sleep, everything the warriors need is at a their disposal at a endless around the corner magical locker... so the caster will have their one set of spells, and thats it, couse the zug zug train will keep going... Fun for the caster ?

And even if they do stop to let the caster rest, you allways feel like your holding up everyone, couse the warriors dont need to stop, or rest, they have everything they need with the magical closet of supply... so again Fun for the caster ?...

is this the RPGs i love and cherish, nope... to me this looks more and more like gear score hysteria of wow, that if you cant, clear everything in one go, and god forbid, spend 5min in relfection of what we just did and go back to camp... its some kin of disaster and wasted minutes...

Looking up at what i just wrote, and i seriously start to question, do you guys even have time to have fun, or is that something you just have a in a magical around the corner closet ?

@Aurora I think you have too many expectations to be honnest.
I may probably agree with you on a lot of points, in exemple about "magic pockets" that I hate... but I neither expect big changes anymore at this point.

Larian seems to think that everything that's not or doesn't look magic is boring, and it is clear that Swen's favorites classes are casters.
That's in my opinion why there are so many magical items, scrolls and so on and why many actions, including common ones, looks so non sensical (jumping VFX, dipping mechanic, scrolls for everyone,...).

They also seems to think that some core parts of DnD (from what I know, not a TT players) need to be changed not to be boring in a video game... like travelling (theme park map very condensed, teleportation, lack of D/N), managing your daily ressources (unlimited resting, lot of food, no exhaustion, lack of unexpected encounters) or even combats (bonus actions for everyone, non sensical items sets).

Sure many things are for EA purpose... But release is in 3 months and what hasn't change for the last 2 years and a half will probably not change much.
Could you share with us what you expect to change ?

You are preaching to the choir @Aurora42. After two years and final EA update behind us, I just keep my expectations low. I think I more or less know what the game will be - I hope it will be a better game in 1.0, but I don't expect to play in August a different game than the one I played for the last two years. By all means, keep your optimism. I hope you won't be disappointed, and I will be very pleasantly surprised.

Again, i think you might be supriced, there is alot of things we havent even seen yet, take multiclassing... and i think you sohuld ask yourself, why have this camp, with supplies and food, and so much effeort is being put into the need for this camp, even alot of the plot scenes and events is based on that we spend time in the camp...

But in the alfa, people rush through the game, and never rest, couse there is no need to ever sleep... as im again trying to explain, if we have instant access to the camp, and a unlimited acess to consumables, why ever go back ?, it simply dosent make anysense, and mind you, Sven been making games along time, if anything being part of the story is important... so do you think its ment that we run through the first act with never ever the need to sleep or rest ?...

But yea, i guess we will see, and i will support Sven regardless, i love him and his games, and im fairly sure he wont disapoint, its also why as stated above, i have so hard to see this magical closet ever staying !


What i expect to change, alot, as i stated, multiclassing wasent even in the alfa, nor was one of the base classe, or make your own NPCs (edit well you can with some creative use of the multiplayer, but it is alittle buggy)...

i wont, but i also know why Larian stopped giving us more alfas, and the alfa we have have alot of placeholder stuff... it dosent even have all core classes, nor does it have multiclassing... its sort of hard to debate, this as you more or less seem to beleave the alfa is some kind of finished product... that said, its perfectly fine to disagree, im just pointing to the issues why it is healthy and the game is acutally built around taking rests, and allowing features that more or less make resting or the camp redundant, is rather story detrimental...

Fun example, i helped a person, with the story, he was confused what some people talked about in some threads, as he never got those choises and optiones, an i had to explain to him, yea, their cut scenes that happens, or have a chanse to have based on when we rest lol... like the growth of certain stuff based on certain choises, dont want to spoil to much, but i think you know what i mean...

And as stated, this is why i simply dont think that magical instant closet is going to stay, people are more or less missing the story, and have no clue why... and i think if anything thats a rather big reason !... but as you say, i guess we will see

And why didn't they change that in 2 years and a half if people are missing the story ? That's something reported here since the beginning.
Do you remember what changes about "not missing story content at camp" ? They added a big mmo-like yellow exclamation mark above our characters head when they have something story-related to say at camp.

Same with many, many, many things that haven't changed at all.
I haven't played DoS 1 and DoS 2 EA, but from what I heard the release wasn't so much different than the EA build.

Of course we miss obvious things like multiclassing and the monk... but I guess we were talking about systems already in the game.
It reminds me one of the last Pannel From Hell, in which Sven himself told that "most systems" were mostly done (he talked about a golden box, or something like that). I hope you're right and many things will change, but I don't really expect it for release.

cant say why, a alfa is allways a trade off between leaving things as is, and or change things as it should... i know code wise there been issues with containers, and storage, with items disapering, so leaving the easy access makes or dosent having to fix a alfa that important, as otherwise they could just added bags of holding etc... but your guess is as good as mine...

As for the exclamation marks, that actually requires that people go to the camp, and in many cases actually do a rest as once you innititatie the rest, stuff happens based on or can happen on what we done... some ofthose exclamation marks triggers after or inbetween... and again you wont get them at all if you dont go to the camp...

I think far to many on these forums think a alfa is something final, as i explained up top that unifinshed placeholder mechanics is left, is often due to other missing mechanics, or not yet implemented items, do you think they will keep the issues with storage as well ?