Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General What's you biggest fear about the final BG3 release?

Yep, agreed.


Yes, it is way harder than it should be, and for me making it more feasible to remain unseen up in the rafters would be a smallish change that could make the stealthy approach less frustrating (and more achievable). I have my fingers crossed, as I agree that it definitely feels as though the area and quest are set up in so many ways to make a stealth approach a valid option, including routes into the camp that can avoid encountering goblins, so it seems odd that it trips up on something like this that feels more like a bug.

Yes ... it would seem that way. :-/

Sadly ... unless my testing methods were completely false ... wich, surprisingly, i hope they were in this case.
It wouldnt be so easy, since the whole game seems to ignore both levels and high ... as if whole Axis Z wouldnt exist at all ... wich moves it from regular "bug" to "engine limitation" category.

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I admit i havent tested it for a while.
It can easily be tested by using a ground effect on someone who is on lower level, while abowe him there is another level ... if effects apply to both, then its still broken.
Or by using from that upper level some spell that have range short enough so you shouldnt reach it ... if you reach it anyway, its still broken.

Well, I do agree that elements of the game have difficulties with verticality, but while I don’t know what it’s actually doing, I don’t think it’s ignoring the z-axis, just because of other bugs like Sleet Storm only creating a surface on the “step” it’s cast on when used on the sort of natural stair in the Underdark down to the base of the Sussur tree. The game does seem to have some sort of a concept of different planes on a vertical access, though admittedly citing a different sort of problem isn’t all that reassuring.

I guess it’s possible that vision cones ignore verticality so we don’t get weirdness like enemies not spotting characters up a hill. But as long as the game actually understands different levels it feels as though some sort of fix should be possible. Though having said that, I’m not sure how I think it should actually work. It doesn’t feel right that enemies have zero chance of spotting us creeping around in the rafters, especially if the lighting is good. I’ll have to try a sneaky run of the goblin camp again and think about it.

Anyway, my apologies to everyone for drifting more off topic! I’ll give myself a stern talking to and stop that now .

Actually ... this Sleet Storm bug is good news, since that is new ... so it could mean that Larian is aware of this problem and started to work on solution. ^_^
I must sometimes try again damage both person on a raft and under it with single acid vial.

Oh vision cones are okey, that part make perfect sense ...
Its the light that is problem.
I dunno, maybe im imagining it wrong ...
But i would say that when you have dark rafter on even darker ceiling ... and under it hangs a burning brazier ... anyone who will look that way will be blinded by that brazier and therefore will have almost zero chance to see person sneaking there.
There is saying in Czech: Under the candlestick is the greatest darkness.

So i would expect at very least "Lightly Obscured" on those rafters ... prefferably "Heavily" to be honest tho.

Thanks for the replies on the goblin camp. Didn’t know about the drink poison trick, will try it on the current 3rd playthrough.

The rest of strategies like fast traveling out of there or sneaking out on the rafters or something, I understand but they seem a bit to „cheesy” for my liking. Like I’m cheating. I guess I miss the standard „Obsidianish” way of doing a bunch of speech checks that solve the problem instead.

Also I didn’t know you could actually talk the drow lady into attacking the druids and betray her there. I did try that but she didn’t bite on my 2 tries, don’t remember why now, will try again too.

Goblin camp is probably THE location in which fast travel doesn't work for me. I just feel we shouldn't be able to teleport away while deep in enemy territory after taking down their leaders.

An option I often use is to decent directly to the underdark, though I haven't found a handy way back up yet, without using the fast travel system.

While we are all perfectly entitled to play the game however we wish, I personally don’t find sneaking out of the camp cheesy (in response to Domoslaf’s point), but only fast travel when there’s a clear path to the nearest portal (my head canon is that the portals let you jump from one portal to another, but not from just anywhere to a portal). So I would only use a portal to escape the goblin camp if I’d either cleared the way to the portal in the Underdark temple, or to the one outside in the camp, from which I’m happy to jump to any other portal. That said, given that I think there should indeed be a delay between killing Ragzlin and the whole camp turning hostile, I could convince myself that what was “actually” happening if I just fast travelled from Ragzlin’s room was that I was escaping the camp before the goblins noticed what had happened.

As to routes back from the Underdark that don’t require fast travel at all, I agree those could be improved and think there should be ways to sneak into locations from below. I think, if you’ve not dealt with Ethel yet, you can use one of the fairy rings down there to jump to the one outside her back door. But if you have then it takes you to her lair behind a magic door (I assume you can get into her main lair then out this way if you use the masks, but have never tried that as it’s a faff). But Zhent’s elevator is locked from the top, isn’t it? And the jump from the spider lair is one way (even if you can fly).

Gah! And I said I’d stop taking us further off topic. Definitely stopping now … at least for this subject .

Not sure it's an actual fear but... It would be a disappointment if the game didn't reach it's potential.

I imagine if larian released great modding/DM/ story mode tools both modders and game developers could add all the campaigns (official and homebrew) into the game engine. It could also be used for testing builds, just doing random encounters etc. If your friends are away you could play your custom campaign together.

If larian /WoTC licensed the game engine and DnD developers could continue to add product.
With good tools we could do a conversion to DnD 2024 rules set. If say the game ends at level 15 we could add more content for higher level play.

My biggest disappointment will be if your character is not fully voiced. Having Tav standing silently during conversations, pulling ridiculous faces like some grotesque mime is really ruining the experience for me.

I'd quickly just like to say that I mostly agree with Domoslaf.

Yes, there are various alternative ways of dealing with situations, but the sort of....main vehicle of taking the plot forward seems to combat. If you look at the social mechanics with which you interact with the playable world, they mostly still resemble the way games like Fallout or Mass Effect worked. You use dialogue choices as the "switches" between branching trail tracks that take you to differring narrative paths, but the train's engine is being powerred by combat. Occasionally getting XP for non-combat progression is a welcome addition, but it doesn't fundamentally change the way this game is played. This XP is still meaningful specificially beacuse of the strength it grants you for fighting. Combat is the mechanic with most development time and the gameplay cycle is mainly focused around it. Levelling up, gaining spells and abilities, acquiring loot etc. are all mostly related to getting more powerful specifically for combat. Figuring out how to do the non-violent way of progressing is presented as the hidden alternative, not the norm. The only time you're reading books for progression is to solve some kind of side-puzzle to acquire more loot to get stronger, you're crafting to make weapons, and social relations you have with your companions are very much seperated from the day-to-day in-world progression.

At least in Act 1, the amount of major *purely* political or social encounters (that are not just in camp) are kind of few. The arena of BG3 isnt the tavern, the town, the grove etc. as these are sort mostly sort of "breaks" from the action rather than being it. I hope this changes in the later acts, specifically when we get to Baldur's Gate. More different factions mingling in social situations, more political intrigue, more situations that require the player to actually think and strategize in non-combat situations. Not making the dialogue be the thing that leads to the mission, but instead make the dialogue *be* the mission itself. Also other non-combat stuff that isn't limited to just social situations: having to infiltrate some place to steal something, taking part in some contest, some in-game minigame like Gwent to play.

I think this kind of stuff would be super important for the immersiveness of the world, so I wouldn't mind a little less time being spent creating combat encounters and the machinery of the skill-system to grant more dev time into all the other stuff. Even though I assume the combat encounter is much more efficient in terms of time spent creating it vs. time spent playing through it, I'd rather have more other content regardless of if it makes the game even significantly shorter overall. My favourite part in many RPG's are always the non-combat things, because they are what makes the world feel real. Think the first few bits in the College of Winterhold in Skyrim.

Really looking forward to the game though! If the rest of the game was just like the first act, this would still be a great game.

Your observation here is really good, SK1PTERS, and while I'd love for that sort of thing, I don't think that, fundamentally, the game is really equipped to do any of that. I think that on a fundamental gameplay level, BG3 is not equipped for that sort of in-game social interaction. That's not even truly a fault of BG3 or Larian either, in my opinion. It's simply how games of this type, and indeed many games in general, work and are made. Combat is, as you say, the engine which drives the train, because it's the easiest type of conflict to use to drive a game forward. It's easy to conceive of, easy to comprehend for players. From a gameplay perspective, one conversation functions the same as another. On a deeper level, D&D 5e itself isn't really equipped to bring that kind of thing to the table. There aren't really meaningful social interaction rules, that stuff is left entirely to roleplay, so there's nothing to port into this game. Combat is the system with the most mechanics and so in a video game medium, which puts added emphasis on mechanics, that's the stuff which will exert the most weight. So between those things and the fact I don't get the sense Larian is interested in dialogueand social stuff, I fear that your fear will very likely come to pass.

I'm afraid they won't have the command console so we can add gold and items and change stats and that the "Difficulty" setting will be the same simple four(?) level choice we had with D:OS2 instead of a more granular set of options.

I'm also afraid the pointer will still obscure the % change to hit when hovering over a target requiring me to wiggle the mouse wildly to catch a glimpse of the number without moving off the targer.. Also does that with other pop-up text.

Gray Ghost I wholeheartedly agree with you! And I'm not really expecting the moon from the sky here. I think combat might be very difficult to seperate from this type of "adventuring" game overall, as there is very little precedent for something different so far. It would require a whole new system to be built from the ground up, and seeing as BG3 does not currently have those mechanics, it's not going to. Non-violence works easier with other kinds of games, like detective type stories for instance. BG3 is not going to be Disco Elysium, and that's just a fact. If someone wants to make a game that combines non-combat-based gameplay with the combat system and large sprawling story of a game like BG3, you'll have my money though.

I guess the best case scenario I'm hoping for is plenty more of those purely narrative bits where you can just enjoy the ride and talk to a bunch of people. Like the party at camp you can have in act 1 after a certain event and the goblin festival. That and non-combat quests that fit the existing game mechanics. Like sneaking missions, puzzles, and those mainly dialogue only quests where you get to just talk to people and make skill checks.

If it's any consolation, SK1PTERS, I think there's hope that faction and faction npcs being a part of the camp will become a part of the game as we go on. We already accrue a number of hangers-on, and there's plenty of speculation about who else we might pick up along the way. Whether or not there will be any meaningful play in the politicking is sadly a mystery, and without evidence to the otherwise, I can't assume it will be.

I'm hoping we have might have camp interludes, and meaningful 'downtime' segments at the taverns we've already been teased with at BG, but I'm an optimistic sort. Right now we haven't even really been introduced to the main plot or all of the factions in play.

I would like consequences to our actions.
If we save traders they give us better deals in act 2.
If we kill NPC X in act 1 they they can't help us in act 2.
I hope we can join / work with different factions in BG, and ok that we can't please everyone at a time (ie conflicting goals) so we help the assassin's in one playthrough and the magisters in the next.

And for combat...different rules of engagement. So an escort mission, rescue, platform, environmental, defend the castle, heist etc

My Biggest Fear is we entering EA 2.0 which is likely to happen. I still believe this Game won't have a Faithful Rendition of D&D or reach it's Full Potential unless the Modding Tools are Released and Welcomed like it happened with D:OS2. I always keep my expectations low now with so called "Modern Gaming".

people the camera is still very buggy that is really shit ... 3 months and that remains so ?.. Please how long until the problem is gone?

Buggy, how so?

My biggest fear is puzzles. I'm not a big fan of solving riddles, the last divinity especially upset me. I spent a lot of time solving the lever puzzle in Lucian's tomb. I was furious and went to look for a guide on the Internet. Due to the fact that I prefer to play in my native language, I could not solve it myself. Logicalization does not always translate into the correct meaning. This is very upsetting.

I actually can enjoy riddles and logic puzzles, and don't think a game would feel like D&D or BG without at least a few. But I agree they can be dreadful if done badly.

I've just played Pathfinder WotR and found the puzzles awful, or at least the interface and visibility was, such as slab placement puzzles where I couldn't see the puzzle at the same time as the slab I was picking. But even once I'd got the solution in front of me (and I absolutely used cheats from the internet) I usually couldn't see how I was meant to have worked it out unless it was largely by trial and error, though perhaps I was simply being dim. Also in WotR even with the puzzles where we were given clues, I often only came across the clue after the puzzle, and though I guess the fact that frequently I'd already cheated it was on me, I also blame the game for not giving me the confidence that it would give me the key bits of info to solve the puzzle if only I were patient.

Anyway, now I've got that off my chest, I definitely prefer puzzles that don't involve too much trial and error, only reasoning, once you've worked out what you're trying to achieve, and that try to give you a decent hint of what that is (that you find near or before the puzzle or in a place that it makes sense to find it, if it's not something you can work out from the puzzle itself).

The only real example I can think of from BG3 EA - the moon puzzle under the shattered sanctum - isn't a hugely promising indicator, but it's not terrible either. There is a decent hint at roughly what you're trying to do, but I found it ambiguous as to which way up I was meant to be solving the puzzle, at least until I spotted some stylized stars that I missed on many playthroughs. And having "solved" the puzzle the wrong way up it's easy to lose heart and decide you're on the wrong track. But on the other hand, with a successful perception check from one of your party you can find a lever that you can lockpick to avoid having to solve it at all. Mixed messages so far, I'd say, so we'll need to wait and see!