Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Miscellaneous lore questions

So with the game release two and a half months away I figured it would be prudent to have a thread where we can discuss questions that aren't about the plot so much as about aspects of setting lore and the background of the story that are unclear.

One thing which I'm really unclear of is a lot of stuff surrounding Elturel. Firstly, I was under the impression that some of the tiefling refugees were turned into tieflings in Avernus because of the infernal energy all over the place. Is that right? Also, how long was Elturel actually in Avernus? Zevlor was a Hellrider, and it sounds like they were working for Hell while they were in Avernus, given a name like that. So yeah, what's the story with all that?

Question about Lore unrelated to plot ...

Is Karlach related to plot?
If not, i would really like to know when she boarded the ship. O_o

Also there is one thing i would really love someone with autority to finaly make clear ...
How far (exactly if possible) is Goblin camp (the one in temple of Selune) from Emerald Groove?

And if i would be nitpicky ...
I would also like to ask why are our companions convinced that being accompanied by 4 (or more) people is too much for them to bare.

The Hellriders are the elite guard of Elturel, so-called because they once rode into hell on a mission (long before Descent to Avernus, though not entirely unconnected to Zariel’s enmity to the city as the linked wiki explains). If there’s not a book somewhere lying around in the game with some of that lore, then it feels as though there ought to be!

I’m not sure how long Elturel was in the hells, but according to its Forgotten Realms wiki page it was pulled down in 1492 DR and from memory BG3 is believed to start in 1493 DR, so I’m guessing a few months to a year? I somehow got the sense it was longer than a few days or weeks, given that it’s stuck there for the duration of a campaign, though I guess weeks isn’t out of the question.

I’ll admit it never even occurred to me that some folk turned into tieflings while Elturel was in the hells. I’ll be interested in other people’s takes on that.

Btw, the Infernal Tides comic by Jim Zub has what I believe is a simplified take on the Descent to Avernus campaign with Minsc and his adventuring party and I found it brought some of that story to life. It’s the fifth in the series, just before the BG3 tie-in one, Mindbreaker. Or the first reply to this Reddit thread gives what looks like a decent summary, though as I’ve not played the TT campaign myself I’m not in a position to confirm that!

Thank you for those explanations Red, they did not get answered in the game at all. I feel like one of the tieflings should be able to explain that if we talk to them. Zevlor talking about how he was an elite guard and now was pushed out from his prestigious, presumably respected position because of prejudice would be a really great thing to learn about him and would go a ways to further make us feel connected to their plight. It feels like there are a lot of missed opportunities like this in EA, where they could really deepen the setting butdon't.

To your questions Rag, I think asking about Karlach's timeline is a good point that fits here. I find her timeline really suspect. And the distance between the grove and the temple is another good question.

That does feel more like game plot than background lore to me, and so of course could change utterly between EA and the full release.

My own theory on the Karlach stuff is that she boarded the nautiloid while it was in the hells in the prologue, and was possibly part of Zhalk’s boarding party (I’m assuming she needed support from other Hellish denizens to get onto the ship given her lack of wings, though there may be ways she could manage without it, and so wasn’t part of the boarding party at all but was just nearby). Either way it is weird she got tadpoled so quickly. Perhaps she was captured and quickly implanted because the mindflayers saw her potential to help fight Zariel’s minions, or perhaps her tadpole’s original host was killed in the fight with the devils or githyanki and desperate for a new body somehow crawled into her before she realised what was going on.

Whatever, it seems she intentionally hid on the ship rather than accidentally being brought along when it jumped back to the material plane and Zariel knew somehow that she’d deserted. Perhaps Zariel contacted her - or tried to - after the nautiloid left. And on finding Karlach unwilling to return, Zariel cast about for other options and fortuitously found a group of travellers and a paladin of Tyr at a nearby toll house under attack by gnolls and on the verge of defeat. She offered them a bargain to save their lives on condition that they kill Karlach, sealed with their souls, and the rest is history. Possibly Karlach herself was even holed up at the toll house with the others after escaping the crash and Zariel wanted them to turn on her. I can’t recall exactly what was said about Karlach and the gnolls in the game.

I admit I have my problems with this story, as well as the Karlach quest itself, but I’m guessing that this was an area that wasn’t really worked on for EA and, assuming Karlach is indeed a companion, will get tweaked, fleshed out and tightened up for full release so I’m not worrying about it overmuch.

Teleportation, Dimension Doors, Zhalk's Bag of Holding, being petite she could had piggybacked on some Tall, Dark and Handsome Demon ... the list of possibilities is quite long

Many demons boarded the ship to take it down. I assume she was part of that mission and instead of trying to take it down, fought to help it escape. It doesn’t matter that she doesn’t have wings. DND has no shortage of way to gain flight or teleportation.

This sounds good enough to me.

This was my original theory aswell ...
But it have some problems.

First, as you mentioned it seems oddly fast.
Second, Karlach herself say something like "if you would seen as much Avernus as i did, you would rather risk having a tentacle" or something among those words ... implying her tadpolisation was willing, or at least not as accidental.
Third, in game intro our PC get tadpoled before we even reach Yartar ... meaning quite some time before we went into Avernus.
And finaly, there is allways chance that she just lie.

Dunno, feels like a plothole so far.
I really hope we get whole story.

Nah, you are abducted from Baldur’s Gate, the Nautiloid is attacked over the city of Baldur’s Gate, and then is immediately flees, ending up in the Hells. Very little time passes; the tadpoling is evidently a quick procedure and the Ilithids don’t waste time.

Maybe they captured Karlach and placed a tadpole in her to disrupt their attackers as a Trojan Horse, but things went south and she was able to hide on the ship instead of carrying out her intended task.

Actually ...

It was never said where you were abducted, and your source of origin depends on your race, while "Baldur's Gate" is just default for those, who dont have anything else ... Githyanki have "plannar" origin tag and was most likely never in city of Baldur's Gate before ... aswell as Drow, Deep Gnomes and maybe Duergars, if they become playable (but i honestly see no reason for them not to be) who have "underdark" origin tag, ans was also most likely never in the city before.

Second, the city that was in original trailer is Yartar ... you can tell by heraldic that is on their uniforms, aswell as all those flags, aswell as by the fact that Baldur's Gate is build by the sea, this one had a river running trough it look:
[img]https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...ale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20200302192044[/img]

And about how much time passed since our abduction ... again, that is something we (and most likely even our characters) dont know.

You are right, It’s Yartar.

However, it doesn’t matter where you are abducted from. You are tadpoled directly above Yartar and then the Nautiloid is immediately attacked. Very little time passes between having the tadpole placed and entering Avernus. Just a few minutes.

@Rag

I could be incorrect here but BG is by the sea. More like down the river that lets out to the sea. Kinda like London…. Like I said I could be incorrect here…. That’s the way I always read it to be… Never really thought about it.

Kinda like this map…

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b9/fb/cd/b9fbcdc05a7300c480d4d2e2708f842b.jpg

Just to throw in another thought, the dead fisherman on the beach mentions survivors from the crash. A beautiful woman that people couldn't look away from, and an elf.

Who were they? Is it possible they were Z'rell and Ketheric? I guess I'm wondering what was really going on in the attack. Why did the githyanki follow the ship into avernus? Was it for the artifact? Was it because there were chosen of the absolute on the Nautiloid at the same time as the player characters?

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One of the things that don't work for me about karlach's story: why is she so important? Why is she so good at fighting on the front lines? It sounds far fetched and ridiculous. She's level one. I get that she says she was fighting with fire in her blood or some such, as provided by Zariel, but if that's the case, it sounds like the fire in the blood is the valuable resource, not Karlach. Just replace Karlach with some other level one unfortunate and jack the up with the devil juice.

A beautifaul woman? Shadowheart!
As to the elf - well, that'd be our favourite bloodsucker, no?

That’s how I saw it too, though the BG1 world map makes it look closer to the sea than the linked map, so maybe more like Liverpool than London in UK terms!

Damn, I know I posted the exact words here a while back but can’t recall them.

My theory based on my imperfect recollections is that the “beautiful woman” was actually the dying mindflayer messing with folks’ minds. I can’t remember what I decided about the elf. I think one of them was meant to have gone south and the other … nope don’t remember, and can’t recall which was which.

EDIT: Aha! Here’s the old thread on this topic I was thinking of: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=838121#Post838121.

Going in order of your questions;

My theory was that the beautiful woman was a mental illusionc created by the mindflayer in order to lure people to it.

The Githyanki followed the nautiloid into Avernus because killing Illithids is what they do. From my understanding, killing them is priority one over everything else, so following the ship wherever it might go for that purpose makes perfect sense to me. Though it's also implied the artefact is partof the reason as well.

As for Karlach, I assume that Zariel wants her back for a couple reasons. One is that she's been fighting for a while and beyond just fighting ability, she has experience with how devilish stragey works, how to fight demons, experience that takes time to accumulate, so she's got value there. The second reason I expect is spite. I cannot imagine an archdevil would just let her chosen warrior escape. I'd be willing to bet that Zariel's intent is to execute Karlach for her escape rather than just re-binding her.

Regarding abductions, I’m hoping we might get a bit of flexibility about exactly where we were picked up for our custom Tavs. It’s feasible that the nautiloid has been dotting about the Sword Coast (or even more exotic locations) picking up people from a variety of places.

I think it's guaranteed that it's been going around. Lae'zel I don't think says anything about being part of the attacking gith force so she had to have been taken from somewhere else. Gale also doesn't say anything about being near Baldur's Gate either.

For Karlach? Yeah i think it does ...
Bcs if she will be Origin character, and if she get the same cinematic start as we do (wich seems likely, they would hardly create special one just for single character) ... it means she was tadpoled before ... even tho just minutes, but still before ... the ship was even near her!!!

As for out Tavs ...
Well, thats less important, but still it would be nice to know in order to feel in your character.
But leaving it open is fine too i gues ... at least we can imagine whatever we want.

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@avahZ Darkwood
I stand corected.

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I dont remember any of that ...
But if i had to guess, i would bet Mizora and Astarion prehaps?

Im quite certain Z'rell and Ketheric was not there ...
For one, such powerfull characters would hardly go unnoticed by full scale battle across whole ship ... and for two, it dont add up ... i mean, if they started in same place as we did, how did they become Chosen of The Absolute allready?

And we cant invite fifth person to travel with us ...
Some things are just game limitation, and therefore shouldnt be mentioned by story ... or at least keep them down.

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Just have to say, this is fascinating idea ... love it! :3

Im willing to bet that the priority order was other way around.