Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Hopes for further party members

I still would rather see redemption arcs ...
Than situation where completely uncompatible characters are in love with our PC, bcs we simply left them in camp, while we were about to do soemthing that is against their alignment. -_-

It pissed me off in Dragon Age: Origin ...
Aleister is mad at you ... you give him two cakes ... and sudently you are best person in the world, even tho you just murdered his Aunt and/or Nephew. -_-
Yes, i know there are no such cakes in BG-3 ... yet ... and i do hope there wouldnt be any ... still, instead of cake, you just go and help/abuse some inocents with your crush and voila! Best romance ever once again.

"Who cares about that burning orphanage in background, look how sweet he is, as he helps this old lady across the street." xD

Anyway i just hope for Corruption acrs aswell ...
I know i said that several times, but some characters ... like Gale ... allready showed some potential. >:]

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As for races, 100% agree with fylimar ... the more the merrier. ^_^

This is big and rich world ... if you remember, Larian, you were complaining about us making our Tav a "Vault Dveller" ... well, same to you! :P
You have tails, horns and claws at your disposal, go wild and make something interesting for us to recruit! :P

Generally I am fine with a redemption and/or corruption arcs. WHEN LIMITED to a very few charecters. I think Sarevock’s was done well but Viconia’s was not. I am honestly looking forward to what appears to be planned for Shadowheart; however, I hope these are not going to be a theme. Astarion needs to stay is snarky self but build confidence, Gale needs to find balance in his self, and the “Blade of Frontiers” needs to put up or shut up . But a true alignment change needs to be supported by good plot points not by romancing, etc.

Definitely agree on both these points, and particularly that companion character arcs shouldn't be dependent on romances. Btw, when it comes to BG2, Anomen's possible turn to CN (I think?) was pretty shaky too, but perhaps I just think that because I'm not a fan of Anomen in general.

I actually wouldn't call the sort of companion malleability I often enjoy either redemption or corruption arcs, as I think it works best when everything is there in the character from the start and it's just tipping the scales. And I reckon all the companions we have so far have shown that potential already. For example, will Shadowheart's newfound sympathy for tieflings lead her to reject some of Shar's more unforgiving teachings and lean into the sort of positive spin that she gives the PC when she gets her memories back, or will she come to despise herself for her weakness and become more zealous than ever (assuming she doesn't discover she's not a Sharran at all)? Will Gale find a way to rid himself of the Netherese orb and resume life with a new sense of humility, or will he find a way to harness its power and make Mystra sorry she rejected him? Can Wyll free himself from Mizora and start to become the hero he'd dreamt of, or will he compromise himself beyond redemption as he struggles to extricate himself from the bargain? Will Astarion seize the power he's been granted and overthrow Cazador and take his place, becoming an even worse monster, or will he destroy his former master but embrace his freedom and walk away from vampire power struggles (while still being a selfish git, of course)? And might Lae'zel find a way to prove herself and become Vlakith's champion, or will her experiences among the infidels shake her faith and ... probably leave her bitter, angry and lost? It feels to me as though Larian have sowed the seeds of these possible character arcs, as well as lots of other ways the companions' stories can go, and I really hope that there's not only one answer for each but that exactly how things play out can be influenced by the story we create.

Whereas I can't see Minsc being anything other than Minsc (well, I could but I wouldn't want to!) and Jaheira has always struck me as pretty inflexible. And they're both plenty old enough to be stuck in their ways, so I can't really imagine that they have different character arcs, even though I'm sure they'll have different stuff happen to them depending on our choices. But perhaps that's a lack of imagination on my part and Larian will surprise me!

EDIT: I just spotted Ragnarok's mention of Alistair in DA:O and remembered that he has one the most egregious examples of a poor character arc I've come across, whereby whether or not he becomes "hardened" and therefore certain endings are available for his story comes down to a single dialogue choice that's not obviously important. Ugh!

I can't say I agree with either of you about Sarevok or Viconia.

What about Keldorn's personal quest, that was the kind of story that plays into alignment that wouldn't be out of place in any number of current rpgs.

It's come up before, but Dragon Age 2 had companions whose personal stories were about whether or not they would be overcome by their own tragic flaw, and I loved that aspect of the game. If BG3 has a similar dynamic going on for each of the origin characters I would consider that 'bad' or passe.

Hmm, I can’t say I have strong feelings about Keldorn’s personal quest one way or another. Perhaps because, iirc, it’s over and done with quickly and generally I leave him after that if he was in my party before, and to be honest I don’t remember it in much detail. It’s okay I guess? I do think that, ideally, how a companion’s character and story turn out should come down to more than what happens in a single quest in a game these days, which is standing on the shoulders of what BG2 did and should do better and be more sophisticated.


I’d also hope that BG3 forges a new path rather than treads ground already covered by older games, and that it doesn’t go for something as simple as every companion having a fatal flaw to overcome or not. (Is that what DA2 did? I confess if so I didn’t realise the stories had such a similar shape, which I guess is to its credit.) But people’s characters and choices being influenced by but not (usually) totally upended by what happens in their lives, which is what I’m perhaps badly trying to advocate for, is really general and I can’t see that any game can claim monopoly of it. Or that it leaves other games anywhere to go if it’s ruled out. Except having characters all stubbornly unchanged by anything that goes on (or at least having had their characters unalterably fixed by different events that happened prior to the start of the game), but while that might work for a few characters such as Minsc and Jaheira who are each peculiarly inflexible for different reasons, it would seems unrealistic to me for most people. And even Jaheira I’m sure could change, though I think it would take a lot!

PS Regarding Sarevok, I’ll keep what you say in mind and reassess in my upcoming playthrough. It’s possible I’m misremembering how well it works just because I recall enjoying having Sarevok in my party. Viconia’s reassessment will need to wait longer as I’ll be playing a female character so not romancing her, but as mentioned I do feel the very fact that makes a difference is a strike against her arc.

I love redemption stories. On Viconia, her redemption fell victim to corporate shenanigans. WotC had moved onto 3rd edition, the infinity engine was not well suited to 3e and so the story was quickly brought to a close in Throne of Bhaal. A forum member - who went on to write some mods - Kalthorine ut Wistan came up an outline for a Viconia redemption arc -- David Gaider, the ToB project manager agreed that it was good and all but admitted that it would been better than what he himself came up with but said that there wasn't enough time in the game to implement it.

Viconia should have fallen from Grace and charname left with the difficult decision to bring her back into Shar's good favor (ending the romance) or accepting Viconia as a companion who couldn't cast spells (excepting scrolls) for a prolonged period of time.

It fit with her story - she left Lloth after a crisis of conscience and Shar granted Viconia power at her weakest moment. To become good Viconia would need to learn to stand on her own without the aid of any deity.

By the end of BG2 the romanced Viconia is completely at odds with Shar's teachings - she's sharing secrets with her lover and reeling in moments of joy instead of nursing a resentful bitterness. Shar doesn't want her followers to recover from past pains. Instead, old wrongs are to be remembered but never revealed to anyone but Shar -- the only respite from pain comes from the forgetfulness that will come with joining Shar's infinite darkness. Old wrongs will only righted when everything existing is destroyed.

TL;DR, I don't think the redemption story in the BG2 portion of the game was bad at all, it only falls down in the ToB DLC section. But that wasn't Gaider's fault - Bioware and WotC screwed the fans.

Edit: As the red queen says, it doesn't make much sense to have Vicky in the party if you aren't romancing her. But then that leaves you will Anomen as a healer - I usually use a mod to lift romance restrictions.

It's been a while since I went all the way through ToB too, so maybe I'm the one who has to reassess. I started a game a few months ago, but I ran into some problems I've forgotten already.


Getting Tweaks Fixes and Cheats mod is helpful when you're trying to maximize your runs, you can change things like gender/race/alignment blocks and make multiple concurrent romances possible. Of course, back in the day I would just cheat in a stack of remove curse scrolls and the belt of masculinity/femininity, and cobble it together like that.


Thanks for reminding us of all the brilliant ideas that rpg development times have killed. I really like this, especially how it incorporates the mechanics of the system. A lot of games seem too afraid of handicapping you like that, even in service of the story.

These days I play BG on my iPad, which I love as I can just lounge around wherever. Which I guess I can with my laptop as well, but the iPad is comfier. But that does mean no mods ... I think. I have read somewhere that it is possible to mod the iOS version of the game if you have BG on a PC as well, but I've never got round to trying this. And I've only got "normal" pre-EE BG for my PC and I don't know if that makes a difference. I guess I could just buy EE for PC as well, but I've already bought the games at least four times over the years and I'm balking at a fifth! Perhaps I'll get round to experimenting one of these days, I definitely want to try to get the KotOR2 restored content mod on my iPad so if there's a similar process then that might help.

But my next run will just be vanilla BG. Well, vanilla BG EE anyway.

I hope there is the possibility to customise our own party without having to suffer through the inane drivel from the recruitable characters. I find the characters that can join your party very annoying and far from enhancing my game actually make it a negative experience overall. I would like to be able to create a custom party of my own creation just like in the previous Baldurs Gate games.

The companions are very much a matter of taste and I find something to enjoy in all of them so far, but you’re not alone in preferring a custom party. We’re expecting some way to accomplish that. I’m not sure if the EA workaround for this will still work in the full release, but if not then from a snippet on Twitter it looks like Withers might be the NPC who’ll give us access to hirelings.

But would it still be "Baldur's Gate" then?
Making a Tav and then picking from available Companions was part of the (occasionally questionable) charm of the OBG games.
Part of the "BG experience", one might say.
Of course, if Larian did what you are suggesting in five or ten years nobody would remember that "the original BG games were different".

Darth Baggins has now created a separate thread for their party feedback/request for custom party, so let’s use that for any further discussion of the points they raise.

(It’d be weird if I moved Buba68’s post above, which I’d already moved from another thread where Darth Baggins has made the same point, as it was posted before the new thread so the way the forums work would become the first post in it!)

You can shove me into whatever place you deem suitable, Mistress!

As I am playing a Lolthsworn Drow I am channeling my obeisance to Omnipresent Female Authority Figures :P

Oh, and I thought it was "shove distance is broken" joke. To each their own I suppose.

Didnae think of this one. But works just as well!

[quote][/quote]I don't remember the thread where there was speculation about Karlach and the nature of her presence on the Nautiloid. I talked with her and she is a stowaway, not part of a boarding party.
And she is being hunted as "I'm good at killing demons. And I like it!" leading to "devils don't like to lose their assets."

Interesting feat - Martial prodigy - gets Light and Medium Armour proficiencies, plus those in Short, Longs and Great swords.

In unrelatred news I found a bauble which allows one to cast Guidance. Hence no need for Shadowheart as she can be replaced.

The discussion you're thinking of is in this thread. And yes, she has intentionally used the ship as a route out of the hells, but to me that doesn't necessarily entail that she wasn't originally sent to it as part of the boarding party we encounter in the prologue but rather than fighting the illithids as she was meant to she separated herself from her companions with the aim of leaving Avernus along with the nautiloid

And yes, there is indeed an amulet that lets you cast Guidance. Personally, I disapprove, and think this devalues having Clerics and Druids with the spell in our parties. At the very least, I think it should be limited to just a few uses per rest. But I know others disagree and anyway I shouldn't take us down that rabbit hole. Apologies!

I run vanilla, vanilla Infinity Engine games It just looks amazing.
(just widescreen mod to fit my laptop, without being way too small so at 1280x800 for a 16inch).
I really dislike the EE versions of all IE games. They butchered the UI look, the snappiness, its not as sharp, etc...But I get it. People now play on pads and phone and care more for conveniences. I care more for authenticity and preservation of the hard work the devs put into these games. EE is a big middle finger to that, not even an option to keep the old look and mods do a poor job at it.

I don't believe in the "but these EE editions help get the new generation of gamers to know these games!". The new generation of gamers would be more interested in the original retro look/feel of these games than a half baked "modernized" version. Its like trying to modernized the original PS1 Tomb Raider, keep the original graphics but smooth out all the jaggies, increase the draw distance, change the UI, and sell that as an EE edition. No more charm from the original.