Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback BG2/BG3 Companion Comparison

Anomen would have benefited greatly if random comments took into account his knighthood / alignment change. But even after the change he still speaks down to beggars and such.

And, yeah, no comparing the two.

I love Mazzy and I really hope BG3 has a Mazzy like companion. A true hero who wants to push against the tides to evil and make the world a better place. Someone who makes companions feel better about themselves and reminds them to hold onto hope even in the darkest moments.

More Mazzy please.

Isn't that what Wyll is trying to project?

It's an interesting take and to some extent I think you're right here.

There was a common goal for your "default" members[those who are imprisoned with you at the start of BG2 by Irenicus]. But if you decided to drop them or your actions made them leave your side you could always find other people who would follow you just because you were a child of Bhaal.

Other characters were motivated either by greed ( evil characters) or some more noble sentiment ( like Anomen or Keldorn).

Here we are indeed forced together(For now?!).

Yes and I'm guessing that if you are good enough friend and/or romantic partner you can persuade him to transform the facade into reality. I'll probably enjoy that bit.

Right now we haven't met a true hero - no Minsc, no Mazzy, no Keldorn or Ajantis. So far we aren't adventuring in the world made famous by Drizzt.

Hoping that will change but if not I can always go back to playing WotR and BG2.

That would be my bet aswell.

Well, perhaps strongly encouraged together, given that we don't need to join up with anyone as far as I'm aware . Though I personally find it almost impossible to pass a potential companion by.

And even if we do join up, we might even in EA find that the reasons for staying together become too weak, as Wyll and Gale might leave us depending on our actions at the grove, and of course we can send Astarion on his way after he reveals his true nature. Maybe SH, too, after she tells us she's a Sharran?

I definitely agree, though, that we're likely to see there being more factors that could drive the party apart, as well as bring (some of them) closer together as the game progresses.

And now I'm going off topic in the thread I'd split out because it was off topic elsewhere! Sorry, stopping now .

Yes, Anomen's potential transformation to CN always felt a bit half-arsed to me. I've often wondered if it was a late addition once the Haer'Dalis romance was descoped, to try to make him more compatible with a variety of female PCs, but have never seen this discussed anywhere.

I don't know about the CN change. Yes, it seemed like a failure option instead of viable path. Would have been fun to try and transform him into a chaotic good character "yes, you are now free to do what you want but killing party members doesn't seem the best way to celebrate that does it?"

When the EEs were first announced I was hoping they were going to complete the material that got binned at the last moment - the aerie and Anomen transformations, the Haer'Dalis romance, the star cross serial killers plot . . . Was disappointed to see that they old focused on new companions and bug fixes.

My post was written under the asssumption BG3 characters might approve or not but will always be by your side. I didn't know they can leave at ACT 1 already. That's cool.

Yeah, that was a big disappointment for me. A lot of really promising stuff got left on the cutting room floor of BG II. The Valygar/Haer'Dalis romances, Solaufein as a companion....additionally most of the late game.... Suldanessellar etc felt pretty rushed. Would have loved to see Beamdog turn their expertise towards fixing and polishing up those areas rather than putting in arenas and adding stuff like the Bear companion.

Having Beamdog redo and restore content might have been a mixed blessing. I still probably would have liked to see it though

One could note that Minsc became one of the most popular character, even if he does not have many story elements...
The "banter" / dialogues / reactions between NPCs really add depth and personnality to the characters on top of adding a good dose of believability to the group.

Really hope they'll work on that in BG3 because it's not really satisfying for now and NPCs are pretty much uninterresting outside their personnal quests stuff.
It would be already cool (and maybe enough as it happen quiet often) if they reacted when they "agree/disagree".

Thats said, I also pretty much agree even if I kind of like Nalia (probably the princess-to-be-saved syndrome).

Oh, I know Minsc is indeed a beloved ranger for many, and I was only giving my own personal view that BG2 didn't really do much to build on the character established in BG1. Not that Minsc is a character that supports depth, but still.

And I'd agree that the banter we have in BG3 EA is somehow unsatisfying. It's not the amount of it, I think, but the topics aren't great and I don't feel it lives up to its potential to help bring the characters and their inter-relationships alive in the way that the best of the BG2 banter did, or even some of the short BG1 interchanges though most of them are pretty disposable. I would expect Larian to do better than BG2 given they are building on its basis and that of other games that used party banter to good effect, but so far it's not even as good. I'd also like opportunities for our MC to get involved or comment on some of the banter, and for more chats between companions or the party as a whole at long or even short rests.

The problem with the the party banter is that it's all predictable and shallow. They party don't say anything that suggests more depth than you see on the surface. We don't see further insights into them as characters nor do we see any interesting dynamics develop. To use Dragon Age as an example since I don't know BG1/2, the friendship between Isabella and Merril is unexpected and enhances both their characters. Similarly, seeing the contentious relationship between Merril and Anders and the push and pull between them lets us see different aspects of their characters come to light. We don't learn anything new seeing the banter in BG3. There's no sense of growing camaraderie but at the same time there's no tension or clashing beyond Lae'zel and Shadowheart. It's all shallow interaction with no deeper insights. We don't see unexpected friendships or clashes or anything like that.

I wonder if part of the problem isn't that every character besides Lae'zel starts off with some kind of secret so until those come out into the open, however long that takes, they CAN'T have interesting interactions because they can't discuss the major aspects of their characters and the things that follow on from that. Also, does the rest of the party even know Wyll is a warlock? It doesn't make sense that they would since he only talks to Tav about it. Same goes with Gale. Which means that those are two characters who logically cannot have their major character things talked about by thew party at large. Frankly it's weird that the rest of the party knows Astarion is a vampire. Based on how the scene plays out, they should be none the wiser.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think the fact that the party has secrets is a good reason for lack of interesting interactions or lack of a genuine feeling that the party (and MC) are building relationships with one another. They perhaps aren't telling the truth about themselves, but lies can still be revealing, as can the questions you ask others. And then there's the potential for reactions once truths (and lies) are revealed. I don't think I have as negative impression of the BG3 banter as you, and I think Larian are trying and there's something there, I just don't think it's quite coming off as yet. And not just because we're still in the early days of the party getting to know each other, but that the actual things they say don't ring quite true and they don't usually feel like parts of ongoing conversations or growing connections or antipathies.

The antagonism between Lae'zel and SH is perhaps one exception but I agree even that doesn't quite work in early access. Wyll's gith-curiosity is another exception when in the party with Lae'zel, and SH's put-down if he then starts on her is pretty good, but the whole thing comes across as a bit sleazy to me (as, frankly, does some of Gale's interaction with SH) and it's annoying the MC doesn't have the same opportunity to call him out if he then propositions them. Or to tell him when he says that the Blade rarely shares his blankets that it doesn't seem to be for lack of trying! Anyway, I digress *cough*.

As to who knows what about whom, while I'd definitely like to see more intraparty chat and reactiveness to revelations on screen, I don't need to see everything and I'm generally happy for folk to just know stuff without knowing how. If they know something I've not seen them find out, I'll usually just assume they told each other so I don't mind too much everyone knowing Astarion is a vampire spawn or Wyll is a warlock. Though it really irks me at the party when everyone knows and comments on the fact you've agreed to some private time with one of the companions, so I desperately hope that changes!

Oh, and I know this will not be everyone's take, but in my view the BG2 companion interactions (which had already been taken up a level from BG1) were then stepped up again in the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games. I don't think even those are perfect, but for me they're the best I've seen. And DA2 had plenty of problems but I agree it did companions brilliantly including their relationships independent of Hawke, and I loved calling round to see someone to catch another companion paying a visit. I even loved the idea of friendship/rivalry relationships though their execution left something to be desired. I'd agree that Larian have a lot of work to do to achieve that level in their companions, and I think that's asking even more of them than that they manage BG2 standard. At this stage, and assuming they've taken on board all the feedback provided, I think there's a decent chance Larian can make me as happy with BG3 companions as with BG2 ones, but less so that they'll achieve DA standards. But you never know. Or rather, you don't know until August .

I think the secret-keeping doesn't help certainly, but you're right that those lies could be revealing. I think that right now they're not even lying to each other about it, they're just not bringing it up. I fully agree with what you're saying about the conversations not ringing true. It feels more like small talk than anything else most of the time.

I was actually thinking specifically of Wyll when I mentioned current party banter feeling predictable. He's a kinda sleazy womaniser, that's quite predictable and frankly it would have been more surprising if he weren't. Imagine if he were more earnestly interested in what Gith life were like, or Gith training. If he asked about all that training she must have gone through and was impressed by her dedication, dedication he never had to have because he took the easy way. I'm slightly more leneient about our not being able to say things in dialogue based on party banter since that feels like it would be really tricky, but DA:I managed to have two companions engage in a whole romance via banter that was acknowledged by the end of the game in the right circumstanes, so more can be done, it's possible. I'd love having more times like DA:O where in camp we walk in on characters interacting, get to watch them for a bit then interject with our own thoughts.

As for the mysterious knowledge, I think it bothers me because it's yet more opportunities for the party to interact being squandered. That plus those moments were played as intimate things meant to demonstrate the character's trust in Tav. Gale makes a whole big deal about how we earn his trust. But then suddenly it's like "nah, everyone heard, there was no indication of any sort of bond." just another way our Tav really isn't special or meaningful among the group. This also makes me think of more potential banter interactions. Imagine if Wyll actually took issue with Shadowheart being a cleric of Shar and willingly staying amongst that evil. He's still stiking with Minthara because he has an iron-clad contract. Shadowheart could in theory just... leave. Renounce her faith and move on with her life. Obviously it wouldn't actually be that simple but Wyll could believe that it is. Or if Gale commiserated with Astarion over both having to feed terrible hungers in order to survive. Or hell, Gale and Astarion could bond over their fodnness for the finer things in life while the two could in turn clash with Wyll in some way or another because he prefers to be a man of the people. Or he could hav econversations with them that hint that his "man of the people" schtick is actually shallow and he prefers a higher standard of comforts. Larian has a lot of stuff they could work with one way or another. I just hope that come release we get more and the shortage now is down to them not having recorded a lot of party banter yet. Which does make sense since I imagine party banter being a lower priority task.

Totally agree the banter should be better and more revealing, but specifically on this point (putting in spoiler tags as probably strictly speaking off topic):