Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback BG2/BG3 Companion Comparison

First impressions are very important. The first NPC we got in BG3 are for me are incredibly annoying. And thats 80% of the roster....
Contrast that to BG2. First NPCs we get are :

Jaheira (good), Minsc(good), Korgan(evil) : pretty great.
Viconia(evil), Yoshimo(?good?)), Edwin(evil) : pretty good.
Jan Jansen(good), Imoen(good) : love them or hate them
Nalia(good), Anomen(good) : meeeeh.
Aerie(good): bad.

Basically a good mix of good and bad NPCs.
Its so hard to judge BG3 on that account because there are so LITTLE npcs...if you don't like some of them well, thats it theres nothing else.

I pretty much agree with your assessment of the earlier BG2 companions, though there’s not a lot of story for Minsc so I’d put him in “pretty good” rather than great, and while Aerie is in a category of bad of her own for me, I find Anomen and particularly Nalia fairly awful too. It means that nearly half of them are, in my opinion, bad, meh, or irritating if occasionally endearing, and for me the balance doesn’t shift significantly with the introduction of the further original game companions - if anything it moves towards more meh. Sarevok is my only other great, and of course we don’t get him until ToB. I’m ignoring the EE companions who I do think raised the overall score, as they were added years later. Certainly in original BG2 I’d struggle to fill a party of six of either a good or evil bent with only companions I like.

BG3 is batting a much better average to my tastes, as I’d certainly happily include any EA companion in my party even though I enjoy some more than others.

Of course responses to companions can be very subjective, and while your suggestion of just having lots of them and hoping enough stick for everyone to find a few they like can work for some games, I’m personally glad BG3 isn’t taking that tack as I’d rather have fewer, more complex and deeper characters, even if I didn’t like some or even most of them, than a ton of shallower ones. Just as I preferred the BG2 approach over that of BG1 despite having more affection for my favourite BG1 companions, liking more of them on average, and not being a great fan of most of our BG2 gang. In a party cRPG I would prioritise depth and complexity of interaction with party members over actually liking them every time, particularly one like BG3 which I desperately hope will give a proper adventuring group feel even in single player (of which there are glimmerings in EA even though there’s a lot of work needed for it to live up to its full potential).

Though I guess if folk respond to all of the BG3 companions as I do to Aerie, that would be unbearable! They have my sympathy.

Question!
How is party created in BG2?

Are you there some group of friends, people with common goal, or just random bunch of people stuck together by (unfortunate?) consequence that forces you work together, even tho each of you would rather not?

Bcs it seems to me like BG-3 is the last option ...
So companions are basicaly made anoying by desing.

Your initial party (carried over kinda from BG1) are united in enmity to the antagonist by events in the prologue, but the game assumes you were travelling together anyway. Other companions might ask for help and you can accompany them on their quest then have them stick around afterwards, or you help them out and then they’ll join out of gratitude. Others have more nebulous reasons for joining. But iirc outside your BG1 pals only one character has a specific connection with the antagonist that means they’re pretty much forced to work with you for the longer term. Personally, I tend to prefer a party who have clearer reasons for coming together, so BG3 is on the right tracks for me.

You, the hero of Baldurs Gate, awake to find yourself captured and tortured by Irenicus a power sorcerer who speaks to you with clinical detachment.

Minsc - captured with you, Irenicus killed his mentor / spiritual guide. Wants revenge and to stop evil

Jaheria - captured with you, Irenicus killed her husband. Also swore an oath to protect you. Is attracted to male charnames
Imoen - best friend, grew up together

Viconia - you intervene when she was about to be burned at the stake. She's drow and openly serves an evil god - meaning that nearly everyone but you is wants to kill her. Needs your protection, attracted to male charnames

Mazzy - you save her from shade lord. paladin, wants to stop evil, joins because your cause is a noble one

Yoshimo - you help him escape from irenicus' dungeon. mercenary. assorted plot stuff

Valygar - you help him kill the thing that wanted to destroy his soul and take over his body. Stays with you after a crisis on conscience. His manichean worldview has been challenged and he's on a personal journey of self-discovery

Nalia - only temporarily in my party. Hires you to clear out family keep. Stays with you to avoid forced marriage. Good aligned but annoyingly written character. something of a parody of an ivy league socialist / limousine liberal

Cernd - only Bhaal knows. Someone decided the game needed a druid so they came up Cernd. Says 'nature' often

Korgan - evil. mercenary. likes gold and murder

Edwin - evil. Can't really say since I always kill him to get his key

Keldorn - Paladin. Good or Lawful conflict. Swears oath of fealty. You can release him or force him to abide by his oath. Liked his voice but I always let him return to his wife and kids

Jan - comic relief. You save him from tax collector and/or bail him out of jail. His illegal trade is disrupted so he follows because he has no other way to make a living. You end up saving someone important to him and he becomes a loyal companion

Aerie - good aligned. annoying. never take her with me. attracted to male charname

Anomen - wants to be paladin. annoying. well written but unlikable character. attracted to female charname

Haer'Dalis - chaotically aligned. traveling with you sounds fun. was originally a romance option but got cut at last moment

EE companions - I like Neera but don't really like the others so I ignore and/or kill them

All of the companions you're not captured with are brought on via a quest they're personally involved with too. Whenever I replay the game it makes it easy for me to bring on and drop of people with those quests.
To me they feel like they sign-up as permanent members a little too easily whenever they join your party. To the point where, when the "...you should know, I'm seeking to rescue/revenge my sister/nemesis" dialogue shows up I feel like the PC has just rooked someone.


Also more banter in BG3 is a good thing, we get some stuff right now between SH and Lae'zel, and between them and Wyll, but after a while in BG1/2, half the reason to bring on characters is to listen to them bicker on the road. I'd like to see more in BG3.

I would of love Larian keep what they did with current NPCs but ADD more BG1/BG2 style ones. Like a dozen more. Not super detailed yet not too shallow either. Just remove cinematic dialogues for those So that we get more personalities, party building options while not sacrificing story dialogues (would have to be top down...) and banters.

BTW I loved Jan Jansen. Some of the interactions and banters with other party members are hilarious. And lots of great mods kind of smooths and fleshes out some of these NPCs quests/dialogues. So I judge BG2 npcs by these standards.
I'd have him in my party rather than Astarion, thats for sure. But thats just me, Im not found for that type of kinky vampire.

I can see Jan retired in Baldur's Gate opening a "Turnips candy shop" but really an illegal magical oddities blackmarket store

Yes Jan Jansen was always a must have party member for me back in days. But he should stay in Athkatla and make space for the next generation. I can much better imagine that his niece or nephew started the adventuring lifestyle and would rather see them as a possible companion: Tat or Tot Jansen or another brand new Jansen.

Honestly it'd be funny if Jan Jansen's niece or nephew was also named Jan. Or Janet. Janet Jansen.

Haha I vote for Jango Fett Jansen!

Thats what i thought ...
As it seems most followers in BG-2 just wanted to go with *you* specificaly.

That will be the main difference between it and 3.

Okay, I realise this is another off topic digression (apologies) but I’m not sure exactly what you mean by that. Most BG2 characters would feasibly join anyone that helped them, and it wouldn’t need to be our Charname at all as, with the exceptions outlined, they don’t have any connection to the main story arc.

Or is that actually what you’re getting at? That they mainly don’t have their own connection to the plot, so it’s only because they came across our party and we helped them that they got involved? If so, yes I agree (obviously, as I already made a related point above ).

As an aside to an aside though, I have occasionally pondered in the course of EA on the fact that our BG protagonist actually isn’t the only person in their particular boat, and the saga could feasibly have been the story of one of the others, or of working with (some of) them rather than generally against them. And in fact it turns out in BG2 that one of those others was part of our party from the start of BG1, and though that’s always felt retconned to me (might there actually be some confirmation one way or another?) I do wonder if one of the no doubt many things in the Larian writers’ minds when shaping the BG3 story was a kind of “what if” BG1/2 could have been her story instead. Particularly as we potentially get another in the BG2 expansion, so there can be three of us in the same party, which I always enjoyed and to which working together with other tadpoled party members in BG3 gives me a similar feel.

Well, basicaly what im saying is that you cant make companions "more like in BG-2" since they dont fit here ...
Maybe except Minsc and Jaheira, who obviously have their own reasons to go where you are going.

From what i read here it seems to me like (and i repeat i didnt play it, so i only judge based on what i heared here and how i understand it) they all had common goal, but basicaly nothing holded the party together, any single one of them could easily just depart from the others and go his/hers own way towards the same goal.
So the party stuck together, bcs they either want to ... or at least didnt mind it.

Thats not the case in BG-3 ... we and our companions are tied together by tadpole, we all have it as our first priority (for different reason, and yes only after we search that suspicious room full of crates that may contain some interesting loot, but i digress) ...
From BG-3 companions there is, to me at least, quite clear message that nobody is comfortable with being forced into this party, we are all basicaly forced together.

Therefore it can never be the same, bcs whole situation and motivations for them are quite different.

Hmm, we may just have to agree to leave this one so as to not further derail this thread, but what you say of BG2 in that paragraph seems to be an accurate description of the situation in BG3, where even if our party don’t join up or if members leave then they’d probably be doing much the same thing anyway as they need to deal with their tadpoles (and therefore may as well stick together, at least up to a point), but not BG2 where most of the characters would have no reason to find Imoen, deal with Irenicus or get involved in the Bhaalspawn saga if it weren’t for being part of our group so if they left would follow completely different goals.

Perhaps we’re just picking up on different things.


You don’t surprise me . I couldn’t stand him back in the day, but he’s actually grown on me (like turnip mold?) over the years, and I agree he can puncture the more serious moments and characters in the game to hilarious effect. I still can’t see how any appearance from him or a family member in BG3 wouldn’t seem like rank fan service though, and while as a fan there’s something I find appealing about that, I think ultimately it would likely be to the detriment of the new game.

I also love Jan.

Which is funny because if you made a list of things I don't like in fantasy RPG he hits nearly every note.

Comic relief? check.
Technology? Check - too much tech makes the game feel steampunk
Gnomes? 2e gnomes were really just variant dwarves and I sided with those who wanted them eliminated them from the game.

But somehow Jan worked. His jokes were actually funny and the game - which starts with kidnapping and torture - needed some comic relief. And his class was both needed and powerful - every 2e party needs a thief . . . And I also found his personal quest kinda touching. Nice representation a chaotic neutral character that wasn't out to destroy the game.

I agree, I take Jan in my party over Astarion any day.
And Mazzy, love her.

Mazzy gets a no from me I'm afraid . In fact, I've gone the other direction for her than for Jan and come to like her less over the years, and now find her really quite annoying which I don't recall doing initially. I still hope she actually got to become a full paladin when the rules changed, though .

Yes Mazzy is one of those NPCs who really benefits from mods like Mazzy Friendship

Some classic Jan interactions (with Keldorn & Mazzy) :):



Keldorn- One must maintain constant discipline and remember the four principles of virtue...that is my motto and everlasting burden.

Jan- Virtue, eh knighty?

Keldorn- Indeed, little one- ’Tis not virtuous to refer to me as ’knighty’-

Jan- Another human with his shorts in a knot. But I digress. Anyway Keldy, my mother wrote a book about virtue.

Keldorn- Did she?

Jan- Oh, yes. A book on the virtues of erotic love. "Sins of the Flesh Golem", it was kalled. Excellent sales in the paladin’s spouse market.

Keldorn A wholly inappropriate jest, jan. You should be ashamed.

Jan- It is not a jest, I will send your wife a copy, if she doesnt allready own one.

Keldorn- Never speak of my wife, gnome. Your lack of respect is appalling.

Jan- Ah, now I see. One of THOSE.

Keldorn- It is not your place to judge my affairs. You must learn to respect your leaders.

Jan- I do respect my leaders. This has nothing to do with them. This reminds me of the chapter where the paladin first makes passionate love to the flesh golem. What a beautiful scene…

Keldorn- Begone, gnome, lest my honor demand I perform acts that you shall regret.

Jan- ’Fleshy, honey,’ the paladin said. ’Yes baby?’ said the golem…



Mazzy- Jan, I find you quite the enigma. This adventure has yilded us a crop of useful magical items and yet you turn your considerable powers to the never-ending quest to create the perfect turnip peeler.

Mazzy- How can someone who’s so clever be so shortsighted?

Jan- Well, Mazzy, you’re really asking two questions there. My shortsightedness was passes on to me by my dear departed father. I was born with the condition and I’ll thank you not to stare! As to your other question, it takes me back to my carefree days as a deckhand on a turnip mechant galleon. We sailed for distant Waterdeep, we did, braving foul seas, foul tempers and a desperate band of turnip pirates.

Mazzy- You are mentally incapable of answering a straight question, aren’t you gnome?

Jan- ’Twas on a cold winter’s night near the beginning of the Great Underwar Shortage that we set sail. I danced naked on the poop deck, which was the custom at the time. Well, my nose and other extremities were getting a bit frosty so I gathered up the tatters of my poor, abused, underwear and headed to the crow’s nest.

Mazzy- Shutup, shutup, shutup, shutup!!!

Jan- Well, I never! You did ask, after all.

Mazz- SHUTUP!!!!

Halsin vs Anomen…😂 🐻🐻🐻

That’s just not a fair competition! Poor Anomen.



I’ve not played BG1/2 with mods for years, as I always play on my iPad these days and can’t use them (or if I can don’t know how!). I’m afraid the games and characters need to stand on their vanilla (well, vanilla EE) merits, which of course I think they mainly do else I’d not keep returning to them .