Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Why is Shadowheart so hush-hush about Shar? Silly? Needless?

If you know of some 5e lore that I'm ignoring I'll be happy to read it🙂 I've not seen anything other than SCAG - in fact I only learned from BG3 that the shadow weave still exists! I had thought the 4e lore still stood . . .

I've not seen anything suggesting that Selune has overcome her 3.5 status as waxing and waning in power. Selune lost the original battle between the twins because she a) spent some energy creating the sun and b) before there was Shar / Selune there was the void - that aspect of Shar is older than Selune.

When Shar was about to kill her twin Selune responded with a desperate blast made up of her own essence - that tore through Shar and Mystryl emerged on the otherside. Mystryl was made up both essences but was made up more positive energy than negative and took Selune's side in the battle.

So not only did Shar lose less of herself than did Selune in that battle she bitterly nursed her wounds and created the shadow weave out of them. I think that's pretty a important detail that helps us understand Sharran dogma - Shar's pain and resentment made her stronger.

Yes, Selune is a greater goddess but Shar is probably the most powerful of all the greater gods excepting AO. The balance is maintained because Selune has more allies.

Having said all that I will say you might be right that the power levels got reset when Mystra died and Shar lost the Shadow weave. But I've not seen any lore to that effect perhaps you know of some -- I know you know the novels better than I.

( I'll confess that enjoy Greenwood as a worldbuilder but tend to skip his novels so perhaps something happened in the Herald?)

I thought the same thing. Not so much the secrecy part, but yea, its right there on here chest lol

I wonder if playing Shadowheart as an Origin, we'll be able to keep the rest of the party in the dark as to our nature? Or if it'll be like with Tav's that are Sharran Cleric, and folk know but it just doesn't get brought up much?

No, you have a pretty good grasp of the lore. My point was simply that on paper, per WotC books, ALL greater deities are equal. The problem is that the good gods always tend to be the ones who interfere in mortal affairs minimally and who are also minimalist in the use of their powers against others, whereas the evil gods are the ones more willing to openly use (and abuse) their power. This is what results in any perceived imbalance in power among those gods.

Yes you have the right of it here. I (will) always want to play my own character in any RPG, though I'm fine playing the developer's character in games where the story is centered on a single, specific protagonist (i.e. the Witcher). But this concept Larian's come up with, their "origin" PCs, is just a horrible abomination.

An out-of-the way location not attracting neither lustful Male Gaze, nor envious Girl Gaze ...

I like the idea that Selune is strong because she has so many allies while Shar covets her power and keeps it to herself. (Cyric being an interesting exception to the rule)

I am happy that BG3 decided to have Shar play such a large role - she's a more intriguing opponent than, say, Cyric. Of all the evil gods she's the one a with the clearest vision of what she wants to achieve. Whatever intrigue she's involved in this year or this century is in service of the longer vision of bringing about the endless night and the end of all life. If she has all this power why does she use it so infrequently? What is she planning?

Well, her vision is the clearest because it is also the simplest: end everything. Nothing sophisticated or complicated there.

Of the evil gods, I like Bane. At least he often is logical and rational in his plots and machinations.

That's LE for you ... you want illogical and irrational - look no further than Gruumsh or Lollth, the Evil Stupid deities ...

Ya it's weird they went with that choice, but it's likely stylistic. On the flip side, there are places that tolerate freedom of worship even for less pleasant gods, though I don't recall if Baldur's Gate is such a place. Common folk might simply not recognize the mark either, but it's still weird even though there are some priests of icky gods that strut around telling everyone who they serve followed by a slap on the arse just like there are some criminals (underworld lords, pirates, etc) who are cocky about their work and only make a passable attempt at hiding it because they're untouchable.

The thing is that those who DO recognise are exactly the sort of people who might object to it and be capable of acting on their intolerance and bigotry - Paladins, Clerics, some sort of Authorities, bounty hunters ...

Acting against evil is intolerance and bigotry?

That was a sly dig at our times.
EOT as not to fall into the rabbit hole ...

Sounds like something a cultist of the Absolute would say...

As for the point about the symbol being recognized, that's 100% true. I'm honestly not sure what the intent there was, but a wise Sharran really wouldn't go around bragging about their deity outside of the right company, much less a priestess of Shar who would probably be especially aware of general perception of their deity throughout their hunt for potential converts, so hm.

You guys might be interested in this old thread where SH's armor and Shar's iconography came up.

One thought I just had that I think makes the armor a bit more forgivable is this; she was on a mission to steal from the Gith. If they caught her and her team, it wouldn't matter what they were wearing if they were caught, they'd be killed on the spot. Or perhaps tortured for information, then killed. In that context a religious group would probably want to go into the field with the symbol of their deity as a little added protection and moral boost. She went from gith to being captured by the nautiloid presumably, and then she crashed to the beach and joined us, and through all that she's had no opportunity to change out of her armor.

@Grey Ghost - nice explanation <3

That was a very enlightening thread, thank you. To sum it up, though, everyone is basically confused as we are, lol. Grey Ghost has a fantastic experience I'm willing to except, but it does kind of go against the way Sharrans typically act. They love working in the dark and being deceptive, so they really would be the kind to proudly show off their religion unless they needed to. Even for a blackhat mission, I would have imagined they would have been careful anyway out of habit and practice. I mean, the Gith are fairly powerful and even if they're killed the last thing you want is to make it obvious it was Sharrans who were having a go at you. That gives them threads to follow.

I struggle to imagine Larian doesn't realize this as Shar is portrayed a ton in a wide range of content and is typically pretty consistent, and even more stuff has happened since the many bygone editions that put Shar in even less of a good light (haha). Maybe this just leads credence to the suspicion that she's someone else's brainwashed or tricked priest, likely Selune's. That would go right in line with one of Shar's major domain aspects and them generally being devious, and I can imagine slapping Shar armor on her would only help sell it home.

The way it's written though is still pretty weird characters remark as if there's something odd about her when her armor just gives it all away, lol. I'd probably count on it being changed for release, to be honest.

For fun I rolled a cleric of selune, just to see if I could get Shadowheart and my character to have a unique dialogue, no luck so far.

Make a beeline for the shrine in the owlbear cave and force the issue.