Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
While this video is focused on the Pathfinder setting the first 13 minutes covers Orcs from Pre-Tolkein, Tolkein's orcs and how they came into DnD. I really enjoyed it.


I really, really dislike the Warcraft-ization of Orcs. I liked it better when orcs were more like BG3 Gnolls - evil, brutal, savage monsters that blocked the path of the heroes. Warcraft orcs are really just a collections of stereotype of "savage" peoples. Ironically 6e DnD is trying to get away from racist tropes but it taking an approach that will simply bring orcs more in line with colonial sterotypes of indigenous peoples - which is what happened in the Pathfinder setting.
Just say no to warfcraft Orcs - I don't care if orcs have pig faces or angry gorilla faces but make them evil and as unlike any human population as possible.

I finally found some time to watch this vid. Very interesting and thank you for sharing!

I do have sympathy with your take on Warcraft orcs, though personally I'd be really disappointed if Larian and WotC remained stuck in the old days of orcs as straightforwardly evil and brutal as I would find it a bit uninteresting, easy and frankly creatively lazy. I think it would be doing a disservice to the potential richness of the FR setting not to be constantly interrogating, evolving, challenging and recontextualising it. I'm almost always going to vote for change and artistic risk, even at the expense of cock-ups and course corrections, over stagnation. That said, I agree that if the way you develop orcs is by leaning into clunky stereotypes of "noble savages" and cultural appropriation from real world peoples then that is likely to be patronising and problematic, and more likely to slip into racism than boring old evil orcs. Especially if you're "taking inspiration" from more recent or even current times, though I reckon you might be able to get away with it if your influences are more obviously from early or pre-history.

So while I'm happy to say no to Warcraft orcs for the Forgotten Realms (insofar as I understand what that means given the last Warcraft game I played was Warcraft II!), I still hope for new and interesting takes on the race in the Forgotten Realms and I think there's absolutely the potential for that. My expectations for Larian and BG3 are perhaps unreasonably high just because I think their goblins are such a triumph. They are hilarious, and awful, and compelling, and lay painfully bare the limitations of some of my most deeply held moral and political beliefs just by being what they are. Perfect!


"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"