Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Oathbreaker vs Blackguard (oaths vs morality)

What makes you say that?
Dont we create an adult character that lived and existed for some time allready, and therefore should have opourtunity to break his oath before?

Depends on your perspective - if for you Paladin means LG and thereabouts, then yes, III is true.
I - although a "traditionalist" in many ways, prefer to see Paladins in a broader sense, as "Holy Warriors" available to all deities i.e. allignments.

I meant while you are still at level 1 and decide to break the oath (rather than at CC). IMO it would be better just to have the option to be a Blackguard/Anti-Paladin at CC.




Unless you go completely off the rails then I don't think you should go straight from LG to CE for one mistake. Some games (e.g. Pathfinder?) give a notice that 'your action has moved you two points to chaotic' or whatever.
Were not Paladins 'traditionally' human only?

Yes, they were. In a context where Paladins had to be LG. And most other races were too Chaotic to hold a Lawful outlook - Elves, Halflings, Half-orcs ...
From this point of view LG Paladins should be limited to Humans -maybe Half-elves too - and Dwarvesy. Although one could argue that Dwarves need not apply due to cultural considerations, i.e. simply "not their thing"

5ed does a poor job here - the Paladin blurb is "anti Evil" but there is nothing saying that I can't be a Paladin of Vengence, my particular beef being against the Seldarine in general - for chasing grandma into the Underdark, or Correlon Larethian in particular - for taking my god's eye out.

I dont think you decide ...
If you are creating your character as an Oathbreaker, you allready did break your Oath, some time in the past ... it may be a day, it may be a decade, that is all up to you ...

If we dont get this option, we just need to go as pureheart allnoble Paladin ... and murder first inocent we find.
I find that quite anticlimatic.

I attacked and killed the Tieflings taunting the caged Batnosed Mottled Toad - Fallen Paladin 2 minutes out of the Nautiloid!
:P

Not as anticlimatic as the innocent. They get their first big break with a walk on part in a AAA game and along comes some psycho paladin and it's all over.

Thats exactly what im talking about ...
In curent state, if you create old person ... you can play as a Paladin who uphold his Oath of virtue and purity for 60 years ... and then murdered first dude he met for ... no reason at all actually. :-/

That's fine if you are doing it deliberately.

I said that oath breaking at level 1 was silly but I was wrong there. If you cannot choose oath breaker at CC but wish to play as an oath breaker then doing it at level 1 is your earliest opportunity.

I have no problem with Oath Breaker being there for those that want it but I do have a problem with it hanging over my head like the Sword of Damocles. Oath breakers don't instantly get flipped into a regular paladin if they deliberately do a good act so why should I have to worry about doing a single bad act by accident.

Especially when the game and i have differing views on what would actually break my oath...

Exactly. A couple of vaguely worded sentences in a tool tip is not a lot to build an ethical system on.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not to me.

'

I would argue that that's a feature, not a bug. 5e is clearly presented as wanting to provide a lot of openness and freedom for players. If what you described is what a player wants to play, and everyone at the table is okay with it, then what's the issue? That's a very interesting and fun story potentially.

I am fine with Paladins from outside the top left corner.
My beef is the disconnect between the PHB flavour text and rules:

"Whatever their origin and their mission, paladins are
united by their oaths to stand against the forces of evil."
SNIP
A paladin swears to uphold justice and righteousness,
to stand with the good things o f the world against the
encroaching darkness, and to hunt the forces of evil
wherever they lurk."
SNIP
"Fighters are rare enough among the ranks o f the
militias and armies o f the world, but even fewer people
can claim the true calling of a paladin. When they do
receive the call, these warriors turn from their former
occupations and take up arms to fight evil."
SNIP
"Evil lurks in dungeons and primeval forests,
and even the smallest victory against it can tilt the
cosmic balance away from oblivion."

Paper and pencil game? No problem. Now put that into code for a cRPG ...

I honestly don't think the disconnect is as dramatic as you think it is. There's clearly an intended playstyle behind paladins and the flavour sets out to define that as clearly as possible. But the mechanics aren't so ironclad that they block any and all edge cases, which they probably would never do anyway. They set out what's expected and leave it to players to decide if they want to have fun by subverting that in some way. You're right about the difficulties arising from trying to put it into code, but that just means whoever's making the game has to make their own call, it's not inherently an automatic problem.