Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback PFH reveal feedback.

Well Said. Thank you.

Really well put, I share a lot of your sentiments and you've expressed them better than I could. I had the same impression of Divinity and hoping Larian would change is entirely on me.
There's a lot Baldur's Gate 3 does right and after all these years I want to enjoy it, but this PFH made it a lot more difficult and the bear scene is just the tip of the iceberg.

Honestly I was thinking the same to you. You really explained what I couldn't and with respect to those in response. Thank you for your measured and well put sentiment. I'm much newer to Larian and didn't play Divinity II all the way through. I should've done more research. Either way, I don't think I would've ever predicted the Halsin scene (so unfortunate as Halsin was one of the only characters I enjoyed out of all the possible companions).

Thank you for your responses. It's helped me put into words my own thoughts. Maybe Larian will hear us.

Re not killing children in the game - the inevitable massacre and consumption of small tieflings is what kept me from joining Mithara and The Absolute in the attack on Druid Grove.

But I see that this was sanitised.

Why?


Hear me out.

It's easy enough to jump up an vehemently shout 'bestiality is Wrong!!. Wrong's a pretty subjective term, so the next thing you've got to do is ask... Okay; what makes it wrong? Why do you feel that it's wrong? What are the problems? You can do this, and most people who jumped up to shout that first statement will happily give you several answer.

So... Why? I'm not being condescending or facetious here: Articulate for me why this thing is wrong.

Now; once you've done that and ordered it in your mind, and have all your reasons lined up, the next question is this one:

Are those reasons present and relevant in this situation? Are they really?

Because if they aren't, we come back to asking... well... Why is this situation wrong then?

If the reasons are not present and relevant, then we have to reasonably conclude that, actually, it's not in this case.

To say that the action, without its harm or problems, makes it even worse is a reaction I've seen to many things, but as natural as it feels to those making the statement, it's also deeply irrational. The reasoning often goes something like this:
“This thing, it is the vilest most terrible thing, and we cannot allow it”
“We can have this thing, but without the things that make it vile and terrible.”
“But don't you see, that's even worse!”
“How so?”
“Why... because if those things that make it vile and terrible are not there, then we'd have to allow it, and that's just too vile to even think of”
“Why can't we?”
“Because it's vile and terrible, of course – that's plain to see!”

It's an understandable feeling based in strong impulse, but it's not rational.

“I find that gross” is not a valid reason to call something wrong. Lots of people find lots of different things gross.

“It's portraying animal abuse in a positive light” would be a valid reason, but it's not the case here, because there is no abuse; only the actions of sapient beings who understand what they are doing and are doing it willingly.

“It's just wrong, darnit; it's patently obvious that it's wrong, isn't it? We all know it's wrong.” Is also not a valid reason; it's not obvious, and without justification, it's not justified.

“It will incite people to commit abuse!” is not justified; if it were, then so too would all the depictions of violence and murder be 'wrong' in the same way. Fictional and fantasy outlets do not cause or increase people's likelihood of committing crimes; that's a long disproved fallacy. In fact, it's rather the opposite – having fictional and fantastical outlets to explore concepts, and impulses in a safe way that harms no-one has been show to actively decrease the likelihood of individuals with those impulses or desires attempting to act on them in ways that can cause real harm.

“I feel very strongly that real-life bestiality is wrong, and this makes me feel like I'm watching/condoning/accepting that behaviour, so this must be wrong too.” is an understandable and emotional reaction, but it's not grounded or rooted in anything tangible. Exploring the roleplay of doing something that you would never do, and never want anyone else to do, is not the action itself, and it's not even encouraging the action or condoning it in any way – it's exploring a concept in a safe space, which is a large part of what social roleplay games do, and it's okay. Sensible folks won't judge you for it, and the people who would aren't worth listening to.

If a thing makes to feel unwell, sullied or revolted to think about, you can explore what about it does so, and why, and learn something about yourself, in a safe and healthy way; that's part of why rolepaying games are wonderful things.

Look; if either of my partners could magically shapeshift into different forms, you can darn well bet that we would experiment with that in the bedroom at some point... would you condemn us for that? Would you try to tell me that it's wrong, or that we shouldn't? If so... Why? And, beyond that question, what right would you claim to have to do so, when what we do is between us alone and involves no-one else?

Larian have put the bear and the twink behind a door in a hotel; what they do there is their own business, and it's harming no-one who is not fully understanding and consenting to it. You can choose to look through the keyhole and see what they're doing – heck you can even oculus in to the twink's contact lenses and get a first-person view, if you want to... but you can't legitimately denounce or condemn them for existing, any more than you have a right to in the above example of my partners and I.

So... if the pixels on the screen that we were shown are 'wrong'... Why?

Very well put

I know the questions weren't for me, but i answered them anyway.

I have to agree with Niara here. It almost seems like those who watched it and immediately felt it to be inappropriate and outrageous, in actual fact just felt afraid of being judged for coming to 'wrong' conclusions and opinions. This scene does not promote or encourage anything, same as having an opportunity to kill an animal in the game does not promote violence to those beings.

How long did you watch before you were offended?

Look away. You are not the moral judge of anyone.

Its very simple:

1: Its not real. If you think its real and is happening in the world, get out there and stop it.

2: its a game. A game of Fantasy. What is Fantasy? That which we can't or are not allowed to do. Kill a dragon. Fuck a bear. Fly.

3: if you accept any part of this game and enjoy it, you must accept it as a whole. You don't have to buy it you don't have to play it and you certenly don't have to critize the entire community.

I think you may need a little lie down out in a park. Let the real world sink in a bit.

if you take this situation, you must mean the game. In the game in the context of the game.

Is talking with Demons ok in our world?
Is letting a vampire suck your blood ok?
Is helping Goblins or Fighing Trolls?

In the game yes.

if you accept any part accept it all.

Why torture yourself if it hurts you?

Are you a real life crusader? Are you trying to save souls here?

You are talking about the game?

If you know where this happens in the world charge out and stop it.


P.S.

Animals can't consent but a man in the form of a bear is just a furry.

the more i read it the more concerned I am. For you.

this is something you have put alot of thought and effort into. Its not like a person that screems about Homos, who is a closeted gay type of thing, is it?

It must have taken a while just to type.

The more important question and the only question is, do you like this game.

If Yes. I think you must accept it.

if No, why try and change the whole game becuae you don't like one part.

Here is a comprimise if you like the game. DON't FUCK THE BEAR.

its not you in the game. Thats the point of games.

they are not an extenion of your character.

Have you even read the post?

The forums since yesterday:


It was a bear...deal with it

When it comes to morality of it, Niara put it perfectly.

Yet, I still think Larian showing it off on this last panel was dumb. Its not because I think its morally wrong or anything, but they made this the topic of the stream. Media jumps all over it.... and we are wasting time and effort talking about it. Sad part it won't make people more mature or see that they might learn something from a post like the one Niara wrote. Not through discussions on the internet. Yet again its a big topic. For me personally it shows the lack of maturity of Larian. Instead of having the last couple of weeks before their release hone in on their game they care more about the memes they create. And yes, you can say any publicity is good publicity, but believe me, its not. Sales number don't go suddenly through the roof. Attention doesn't suddenly divert to your game and *SUCCESS* just because you have another meme draging your game through ridicule and controversy.

But well. Here we are again. Larian claiming they have a grand dark immersive story to tell and at the same time a bear fucks a vampire.

(I suspect, given the string of responses, that glavin may be responding to individual posts as they read through the thread, without realising that they're being appended as separate posts at the end... each short response seems directed at different posts or people)

I totally agree here. People get riled up about the Halsin scene, but killing innocents seems to be totally ok for them.
And yes, I agree, your choices lead to bad things, nothing else.

I am 100% certain they choose that scene precisely for that reason. How many casual game players who haven't heard of this game learned about it because of the headlines.

"Larian's Baldur's Gate 3 now has playable monk class" doesn't draw as many eyes as (actual headline I saw, or close to it) "Larian's Baldur's Gate 3 has monks, bear-banging"

Its two adults that consent... that Druid isnt more wrong then a Dragonborn thats a reptile doing it with the barbarian... its still consenting adults that choose to in varying ways to do lued stuff... r are you saying that no romance for Dragonborn ?