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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
What about the fatalities in Mortal Kombat? That's far more brutal and encouraged and celebrated than anything in this game.

I actually believe that Mortal Kombat has turned into torture porn and should have the same advertising/selling restrictions as hardcore pornography.
Well, I respect your consistency.


Just as a general comment to everyone else complaining in this topic:
I didn't like that scene anymore than you did. I was complaining earlier too. And joking about it. I just think there's more room for nuance in how we should process our feelings about this issue.


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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Gets warned not to let kids see it. Let's kids see it.

My thought process at the time: this will be tamer than the minthara scene we already have, because streaming, so it's likely no big

My action: say to the kid "so what he's saying is there will be nudity and maybe some sex, your choice if you stay or not"

I wasn't fussed about the screwing, he's 14, he knows what screwing is, and depictions of loving, consensual intimacy are positive if they're not too explicit.

But animal stuff, like with BDSM, toys, etc, is in my thinking a bit much for kids (or maybe most folks for whom this is still all theoretical).
My dude an entire class in DND is built around your mommy or daddy being a magical creature that could be anything from a powerfull wizard to a dragon, to a god of murder who impregnated women so he could kill their childeren.

Not to mention dragonborn as a race themselves. A little late to close thachildren.

Also it's a M game and you were warned multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Call me old fashion... but I don't think bestiality should be included in any form of media. Especially in as positive of a light as it is in this game. I don't think it should be a choice, locked behind a choice-wall or anything else like that.

Strong disagree. The more I've thought about this, the more I think omitting this possibility would have been a poorer choice.

We have a lot of ways to explore the characters' inner lives, and for most people, that includes sexual expression. "Do druids use their wildshape forms when they screw?" is a totally valid question in a universe with magical druids. And the answer is almost certainly "some do, some don't, and some don't care very much."

Not including the possibility of a druid using their wildshape form when they get down feels like intentionally ignoring part of the world, and a part of the world that would be very important to the characters, simply because it's super kinky.

The scene should be there. But a more specific content warning in the PFH would have been appreciated

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Originally Posted by Veilburner
We shouldn't decide on what's "good" or "bad" in an M-rated game depending on whether kids will see it or not.

Back in the day on Sega Genesis and arcades we had Mortal Kombat where we had fatalities like ripping a heart from the chest.

Torture and dismemberment happen in horror movies.

Grand Theft Auto games allow you to run over pedestrians and kill indiscriminately.

Kids will always get ahold of media they shouldn't have access to. Or we think they shouldn't have access to.

It's not up to the companies to keep them out of the reach of children.

It is curious how the boundaries get moved a little here a little there, until one day you (we) wake and ...


DRAGON FIRE-AND DOOM Dragons? Splendid things, lad-so long as ye look upon them only in tapestries, or in the masks worn at revels, or from about three realms off...
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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Call me old fashion... but I don't think bestiality should be included in any form of media. Especially in as positive of a light as it is in this game. I don't think it should be a choice, locked behind a choice-wall or anything else like that.

Strong disagree. The more I've thought about this, the more I think omitting this possibility would have been a poorer choice.

We have a lot of ways to explore the characters' inner lives, and for most people, that includes sexual expression. "Do druids use their wildshape forms when they screw?" is a totally valid question in a universe with magical druids. And the answer is almost certainly "some do, some don't, and some don't care very much."

Not including the possibility of a druid using their wildshape form when they get down feels like intentionally ignoring part of the world, and a part of the world that would be very important to the characters, simply because it's super kinky.

The scene should be there. But a more specific content warning in the PFH would have been appreciated

So if we created a magical world in a video game where a character may, in theory, be compelled to rape a child... you would be okay with vividly showing that on the screen because it is important to show what that character may or may not do?

Which is to say - is there any line that we can draw on this or can we just show anything at this point and it is okay?

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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I just think there's more room for nuance in how we should process our feelings about this issue.

The nuance has been sorely, sorely lacking. People who like me, have zero problem with the scene, think I'm complaining about it. It's really frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
So if we created a magical world in a video game where a character may, in theory, be compelled to rape a child... you would be okay with vividly showing that on the screen because it is important to show what that character may or may not do?

Which is to say - is there any line that we can draw on this or can we just show anything at this point and it is okay?

Yes there is a line, and it's easy to answer. We draw the line at consent. Any media that has non-con sexual interactions should be clearly identified as such. Consent is where we draw the line

Edit: this is also my response to the question below about necro. The corpse can't consent, and treating a corpse like an empty husk stripped of its humanity is desecration and is obviously not okay

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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Call me old fashion... but I don't think bestiality should be included in any form of media. Especially in as positive of a light as it is in this game. I don't think it should be a choice, locked behind a choice-wall or anything else like that.

Strong disagree. The more I've thought about this, the more I think omitting this possibility would have been a poorer choice.

We have a lot of ways to explore the characters' inner lives, and for most people, that includes sexual expression. "Do druids use their wildshape forms when they screw?" is a totally valid question in a universe with magical druids. And the answer is almost certainly "some do, some don't, and some don't care very much."

Not including the possibility of a druid using their wildshape form when they get down feels like intentionally ignoring part of the world, and a part of the world that would be very important to the characters, simply because it's super kinky.

The scene should be there. But a more specific content warning in the PFH would have been appreciated

You need to get checked.

Why not add necrophilia? In a world where raising the dead and necromancy is a thing, why not raise that corpse over there, woo it with “speak with the dead” and get down with some hot backdoor entry corpse action. Simply because it’s super kinky.

Yikes.

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Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
So if we created a magical world in a video game where a character may, in theory, be compelled to rape a child... you would be okay with vividly showing that on the screen because it is important to show what that character may or may not do?

Which is to say - is there any line that we can draw on this or can we just show anything at this point and it is okay?

Yes, and it's easy to answer. We draw the line at consent. Any media that has non-con sexual interactions should be clearly identified as such. Consent is where we draw the line

So then showing someone sexually involved with a consenting six year old would be okay then? Or multiple people using a consenting six year old? As long as they consent?

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Originally Posted by Doomlord
Originally Posted by Veilburner
We shouldn't decide on what's "good" or "bad" in an M-rated game depending on whether kids will see it or not.

Back in the day on Sega Genesis and arcades we had Mortal Kombat where we had fatalities like ripping a heart from the chest.

Torture and dismemberment happen in horror movies.

Grand Theft Auto games allow you to run over pedestrians and kill indiscriminately.

Kids will always get ahold of media they shouldn't have access to. Or we think they shouldn't have access to.

It's not up to the companies to keep them out of the reach of children.

It is curious how the boundaries get moved a little here a little there, until one day you (we) wake and ...
Yes our society evolves all the time, is this a bad thing?

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Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
So if we created a magical world in a video game where a character may, in theory, be compelled to rape a child... you would be okay with vividly showing that on the screen because it is important to show what that character may or may not do?

Which is to say - is there any line that we can draw on this or can we just show anything at this point and it is okay?

Yes, and it's easy to answer. We draw the line at consent. Any media that has non-con sexual interactions should be clearly identified as such. Consent is where we draw the line

So then showing someone sexually involved with a consenting six year old would be okay then? Or multiple people using a consenting six year old? As long as they consent?

Yea, let's stop this right here. This isn't going to go well for you.

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Folks, I confess I haven't even had chance to read this thread, as I've been trying to answer as many of your questions about the PFH and the game while it's still fresh in my mind over in that other thread I've created.

I hope everything here is being kept constructive. If there are any issues here, or indeed elsewhere on the forum while I'm still trying to download my brain, can I suggest that you PM me instead of (or as well as) reporting a post? We have a bit of a bug we can't yet get to the bottom of that means I don't get post reports directly, so The Composer has to forward them to me and I'm not sure he's home yet (he was at the event too!).

Thanks for keeping things friendly, even when discussing topics we might feel strongly about.


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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Yea, let's stop this right here. This isn't going to go well for you.

Oh no.

Anything but that.

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lets leave kids out of this... its about consenting adults

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Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Yea, let's stop this right here. This isn't going to go well for you.

Oh no.

Anything but that.

Erm, okay, I don't even know the context of this, but that's not sounding very constructive or friendly to me.

As per my note in the other thread, I'm getting tired and hungry so you don't want me to have to come over here grin


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Originally Posted by Aurora42
lets leave kids out of this... its about consenting adults

It's actually about a human being and an animal. I am unsure if you saw what was depicted or what this thread is about.

And what was said is the line being drawn was consent and only consent. I am asking if there is a limit to what we can depict or not.

For some reason you seem uncomfortable with children being brought into it, just like I would be. I think that is pretty self explanatory. Just like I think it is pretty self explanatory as to why we shouldn't be depicting people having sex with animals.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Originally Posted by colinl8
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
So if we created a magical world in a video game where a character may, in theory, be compelled to rape a child... you would be okay with vividly showing that on the screen because it is important to show what that character may or may not do?

Which is to say - is there any line that we can draw on this or can we just show anything at this point and it is okay?

Yes, and it's easy to answer. We draw the line at consent. Any media that has non-con sexual interactions should be clearly identified as such. Consent is where we draw the line

So then showing someone sexually involved with a consenting six year old would be okay then? Or multiple people using a consenting six year old? As long as they consent?

Yea, let's stop this right here. This isn't going to go well for you.

There is a term called an age of consent and it is governed by law differently in different countries. In my homeland it is 15 years old. This would be the line for me.

EDIT: I double checked, it's 16.

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Originally Posted by The Red Queen
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Originally Posted by Boblawblah
Yea, let's stop this right here. This isn't going to go well for you.

Oh no.

Anything but that.

Erm, okay, I don't even know the context of this, but that's not sounding very constructive or friendly to me.

As per my note in the other thread, I'm getting tired and hungry so you don't want me to have to come over here grin

Like I told you in your private message...

I'm perfectly fine with you banning me for saying that pedophilia and bestiality are wrong/wrong to depict in media. If you would like to do so then I suggest that you consider the moderation policies of this forum as opposed to my stance on the issue.

Also - if you would like to ban me for discussing moderation policies in public then you are also free to do so. But you are the one who just brought it up in the post that I am quoting.

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Originally Posted by neprostoman
There is a term called an age of consent and it is governed by law differently in different countries. In my homeland it is 15 years old. This would be the line for me.

EDIT: I double checked, it's 16.

There is also (shockingly) laws against bestiality too.

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Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
Originally Posted by colinl8
Yes, and it's easy to answer. We draw the line at consent. Any media that has non-con sexual interactions should be clearly identified as such. Consent is where we draw the line

So then showing someone sexually involved with a consenting six year old would be okay then? Or multiple people using a consenting six year old? As long as they consent?
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
It's actually about a human being and an animal. I am unsure if you saw what was depicted or what this thread is about.

And what was said is the line being drawn was consent and only consent. I am asking if there is a limit to what we can depict or not.

For some reason you seem uncomfortable with children being brought into it, just like I would be. I think that is pretty self explanatory. Just like I think it is pretty self explanatory as to why we shouldn't be depicting people having sex with animals.
6 year olds can't meaningfully consent. If it was shown then it'd be rape, pedophilia, etc. (Which is bad)

An adult member of sapient/sentient species--human, elf, dragonborn, devil, dragon, lizardfolk, halfling, or a elf temporarily transformed into a bear--can consent. That's the difference.

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