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Originally Posted by The Red Queen
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Karlach???

I was won over by Karlach on Friday, after being dubious based on the encounter in early access. She was unexpectedly a complete sweetheart and, as we saw in the PFH, definitely romanceable.

I do think balancing romance options to make it “fair” on some grounds is nigh on impossible given it’s so subjective which characters are going to resonate with people and interests differ. Best not to make it a competition and just say what we’d like to see.

(BTW if it is a competition I will appeal to folk to recognise that at least we’re not in an Anomen vs Jaheira/Viconia/Aerie situation biggrin)

As far as I'm concerned they've been doing a good job of balancing in that so far we have four confirmed male romance options and four confirmed female romance options and they are each open to characters of any race or gender. It works for me.

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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
Originally Posted by Arkhan
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
If you want a non-evil romance option, you can romance Shadowheart, I don't think she's evil. Same thing goes for the male companions we can romance. The devs did say that your companions alignments can change depending on your choices and if they like you enough to follow you.

I suppose we could have some metaphysical debate of "what is evil anyway?" but let's be honest, she's evil. She worships a deity that wants to annihilate everything in existence. It doesn't come much more evil than that.

I don't really care what alignment the romance companions are for me personally. I'll romance whoever appeals to my taste. The OP doesn't feel that straight male players have good options in terms of "good aligned" female companions. Perhaps he doesn't find those female choices attractive.

It's good to know that Karlach is good-ish, I suppose that fits the bill as to a good aligned romance option and I didn't immediately think of her so thanks smile

As for Shadowheart, well she is evil. As someone has pointed out if you are an active member of a cult of death you can't really be a good guy. Also, I have dated many women in my younger days and have a wife and I can tell you without exception no woman (or man for that matter) wants to have someone try and change their core beliefs as part of a relationship. Friends can argue and try and persuade each other but in a relationship that's poison.

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I think in the game's situation, changing someone's beliefs is actually on you. The devs even said that based on the choices you make, your companions will either like it or not. They will also choose to either stay with you or leave but at the end of the day it will all depend on the choices you make in the game. That also means that just because someone is "evil", it doesn't mean they will stay that way. You might be able to change them based on your choices.

Last edited by Lady Avyna; 10/07/23 10:32 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I think in the game's situation, changing someone's beliefs is actually on you. The devs even said that based on the choices you make, your companions will either like it or not. They will also choose to either stay with you or leave but at the end of the day it will all depend on the choices you make in the game. That also means that just because someone is "evil", it doesn't mean they will stay that way. You might be able to change them based on your choices.

Fair enough. Not exactly what I was getting at but okay.

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Originally Posted by FuriousGreg
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I think in the game's situation, changing someone's beliefs is actually on you. The devs even said that based on the choices you make, your companions will either like it or not. They will also choose to either stay with you or leave but at the end of the day it will all depend on the choices you make in the game. That also means that just because someone is "evil", it doesn't mean they will stay that way. You might be able to change them based on your choices.

Fair enough. Not exactly what I was getting at but okay.

I think the issue is you keep emphasizing "Straight" guys wanting only good aligned females. For example, Shadowheart could be made to be good based on the choices you make in the game. The developers have said this can be a possibility in the game, again based on your choices.

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Look, I get what you're talking about Greg and can be sympathetic to it, but some of the language you use undercuts your point. From a certain perspective, it would be nice if the women romance options in the game had a greater diversity of alignment, given Lae'zel and Minthara are evil dominatrix-types, Jaheira is reaching the end of a half-elf's lifespan, and Shadowheart could be evil-aligned, someone like yourself might feel like Karlach is your only option.

I think you can make this point without some of your other statements.


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I'm not sure if he just enquired for himself, with the background knowledge lesbians exist. I've seen people speak as the Representative of All Straight Dudes Everywhere, and this doesn't feel authentic without the 3 paragraphs how x "looks like a man"

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Originally Posted by The Red Queen
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Karlach???

I was won over by Karlach on Friday, after being dubious based on the encounter in early access. She was unexpectedly a complete sweetheart and, as we saw in the PFH, definitely romanceable.

I do think balancing romance options to make it “fair” on some grounds is nigh on impossible given it’s so subjective which characters are going to resonate with people and interests differ. Best not to make it a competition and just say what we’d like to see.

(BTW if it is a competition I will appeal to folk to recognise that at least we’re not in an Anomen vs Jaheira/Viconia/Aerie situation biggrin)

Karlach is a secret agent from hell!! Be careful. :)~


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Originally Posted by Arkhan
[quote=Lady Avyna]
since I suspect Karlach might not be evil. (It is difficult to tell since 5e stupidly removed alignments.)
.


They did say in the live stream that Karlach is good aligned and wants to make a positive impact on the world

Plus I got the impression most companions can have their alignment shifted somewhat over the story Shadowheart specifically based on the theories on her backgrounds. But even if it isn't true from talking to her I do get the impression she isn't as heartless as she like to make out.

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Originally Posted by Silver/
I'm not sure if he just enquired for himself, with the background knowledge lesbians exist. I've seen people speak as the Representative of All Straight Dudes Everywhere, and this doesn't feel authentic without the 3 paragraphs how x "looks like a man"
This game definitely has a more diverse playerbase than being 94% straight dudes. Don't know what the actual demographics are, but there are too many women and LGBTQ+ members on the forums and subreddit for the playerbase to be almost entirely straight men.


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Originally Posted by Arkhan
Originally Posted by Lady Avyna
I don't really care what alignment the romance companions are for me personally. I'll romance whoever appeals to my taste. The OP doesn't feel that straight male players have good options in terms of "good aligned" female companions. Perhaps he doesn't find those female choices attractive.

I can't speak for the OP, but from the initial post, that was not the issue he was concerned about. It is that none of the female love interests are non-evil. I think he is possibly wrong though, since I suspect Karlach might not be evil. (It is difficult to tell since 5e stupidly removed alignments.)

Originally Posted by benbaxter
So yeah, Shadowheart, while often annoying, is almost certainly a good person at heart.

Even if that were true, and I don't think it is, it doesn't help since she will be perceived as evil when players are choosing a romance option.

This is a serious question and not meant to be sarcastic: How much did you play in EA with Shadowheart in your party?

Regardless of the spoilery stuff that I won't get into as you encounter certain objects and places, her approval responses make it pretty clear that she isn't evil.

Scroll down on this page to see a list of come of her approval and disapproval moments. https://baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com/Shadowheart


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by Silver/
I'm not sure if he just enquired for himself, with the background knowledge lesbians exist. I've seen people speak as the Representative of All Straight Dudes Everywhere, and this doesn't feel authentic without the 3 paragraphs how x "looks like a man"
This game definitely has a more diverse playerbase than being 94% straight dudes. Don't know what the actual demographics are, but there are too many women and LGBTQ+ members on the forums and subreddit for the playerbase to be almost entirely straight men.
Agreeing completely with you here.

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Originally Posted by benbaxter
This is a serious question and not meant to be sarcastic: How much did you play in EA with Shadowheart in your party?

She was with me all the way in two of my act I play-throughs. Adolf Hitler liked puppies too you know.

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All the romance companions we've encountered so far in this game are suffering from some sort of magic/otherwordly/undead/demonic curse/mark/artifact/whatever. I don't think their world beliefs matter as much as what they've been pushed towards by the circumstances of their past, except in Astarion's case probably forgot how to be 'normal', and in Lae'Zel's case Githyanki are far from the friendliest race. Its perfectly plausible that we're allowed to influence them by helping them with their problems and hence nudge them towards a different path.

I don't see Lae'Zel suddenly becoming romantic and blowing you kisses, but Shadowheart's date is probably the sweetest out of entire EA content we've got so far, and she approves of all your good choices similar to Gale, with the only difference is that she wants to get rid of the tadpole asap. If thats not good at heart then I don't know what is. Who cares what god she worships right now.


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Originally Posted by Arkhan
Originally Posted by benbaxter
This is a serious question and not meant to be sarcastic: How much did you play in EA with Shadowheart in your party?

She was with me all the way in two of my act I play-throughs. Adolf Hitler liked puppies too you know.

First off, the hitler joke made me chuckle out loud, so thanks for that smile

Second, I don't want to delve into any particular real world examples, but there a plenty of people who follow intolerant/evil religions and are not themselves evil.

Third, I would like to understand what exactly Shadowheart did in your playthrough that screamed "Evil!", because I didn't really encounter it. Other than a couple selfish moments, she has definitely erred on the side of nice/good. Heck, on my evil playthrough I had to work to convince her that killing the druids was a good thing, she was not okay with it by default. Which I think speaks to Larian's goals of us being able to guide how our companions think and feel about us and the world.


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Originally Posted by FuriousGreg
So you can have Bear sex but there's no romance options for strait, male characters with a non-evil female NPC? Am I missing a romance option or is Larian ignoring us? I fully understand there may be a romance option that fits the bill that I'm unaware of so if there is one please let us strait guys know wink

PS> Just to head off the very vocal inclusion folks; I am happy as a clam that there are options for that 3-6% of the population that identifies as not strait or the somewhat larger % of folks that just want to explore options or whatever but it's kinda non-inclusive to leave out the rest of us who'd like to romance someone of the opposite sex who's not evil.

Karlach is not evil.
Shadowheart is probably NOT evil

Although I just don't think it's a good idea to date your co-workers. You really need to look outside the workplace for these sorts of things.


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Originally Posted by FuriousGreg
So you can have Bear sex but there's no romance options for strait, male characters with a non-evil female NPC? Am I missing a romance option or is Larian ignoring us? I fully understand there may be a romance option that fits the bill that I'm unaware of so if there is one please let us strait guys know wink

PS> Just to head off the very vocal inclusion folks; I am happy as a clam that there are options for that 3-6% of the population that identifies as not strait or the somewhat larger % of folks that just want to explore options or whatever but it's kinda non-inclusive to leave out the rest of us who'd like to romance someone of the opposite sex who's not evil.
I don't believe Karlach is evil. In fact she seems like a sweetie!

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Originally Posted by Silver/
I think it's Karlach for the good side, and Shadowheart for the evil to neutral side.

I emphasize with your complaint, though. Karlach isn't really everyone's type and it feels forced in good playthroughs. I'm hoping Larian has romance options with NPCs that aren't quite part of your party, but on your side nonetheless. With what I've heard, I'm expecting a solid number of them.
There are certainly strong hints in Early Access content that a relationship with Lakrissa is a possibility. I certainly hope so!

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Yes Karlach is a victim of her race and was literally sent to hell for being born that way... wyll in the other hand is happy to make deals with evil and lie about while claiming to be a good person


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The intrigue with Wyll is if his self image does not match his actions... or if he's duping people on purpose.

I feel Larian made him considerably darker with that intent to kill Karlach. That prisoner he tortured? Doesn't seem so OOC now

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