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I really don't see what an actor's real appearance has to do with them providing a voiceover. Why do you think that's important? It wasn't just about the voice, it was about whether I would believe this person if she claimed to be barbarian warrior. Archer? I could believe that. Rogue? I do not have a problem with it. Barbarian? Definitely not. For the same reason, I don't believe that Karlach is a barbarian. Unsuitable face and inappropriate voice. But I guess I shouldn't be too hard on Larian. Karlach was not part of EA and her class and final appearance were only recently revealed. My guess is that if they had more time, they would have probably fixed her up, as well as Wyll. It's a shame because Karlach had potential.
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Gina got cancelled for making transphobic/homophobic comments and comparing being a conservative to Jews murdered during the holocaust. Who cares? She is an actress, not a politician... I'll not comment on Gina Carano specifically as while I did read some stuff about it at the time Disney distanced themselves from her, I don't recall the details. But speaking generally, I think the problem with employing actors who have publicly made statements that attack certain groups of people, using specifically LGBT folk as an example, is threefold. EDIT: And as it's off at a tangent given this thread was about Karlach's face not her voice, I'll also pop it in spoiler tags ...
(1) Companies will have their own values, which in many cases will include a commitment to supporting and serving LGBT employees and customers. That wouldn't and shouldn't prevent them employing people of different views within reason, but if someone has been publicly vocal about attitudes that are antithetical to a company's values, then it makes it hard for that company to employ them without accusations of hypocrisy or failure to stand up for what they believe in.
(2) Companies have a duty of care to their employees. I personally would be very uneasy about asking an LGBT employee (of whom I'm sure Larian has a number given their size) to work with someone who had been vocal about their anti-LGBT attitudes and had advocated for measures that were likely to harm them and people like them.
(3) Again within reason I think people are generally able to separate art from the artist. But if an artist publicly and repeatedly expresses views, and attacks something that people experience as central to themselves such as sexuality or gender identity, that can get to be too big an ask. There are certainly a few creatives whose work I previously enjoyed that I no longer can because the first thing I think of now is the objectionable things they have said or done. And I think it would be unfair to LGBT gamers to include a prominent character in the game with a voice that it would be perfectly understandable if it kept reminding them of the hatred they experience from some quarters.
Put more succinctly, no-one forces actors to publicly express anti-LGBT views: it is their choice to go on record. And it seems good practice for everyone, not just actors, that if you wish to continue to be employed, don't publicly attack a section of your potential co-workers and the customer base for the products you're likely to be creating.
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on that particular topic. Obviously folk are welcome to agree or disagree with any of the points I have made (as long as they do so calmly and without insulting anyone), but as it's a digression from the main topic of the thread and a discussion I don't want to prolong given it naturally touches on sensitivities, I won't respond publicly any further unless someone forces me to as a moderator.
If anyone wants to ask me anything specific about the above, feel free to PM me.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 16/07/23 09:54 AM.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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If you look at some of her photos in a swimsuit, you will see that she has a completely normal female figure. She is Barbarian enough to me. :P [img] https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f...ale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20221215025541[/img] //Edit: It start to REALLY annoy me that every stupid web is using some incompatible formats of pictures. -_- Then those idiots are complaining that you are "stealing it" and reuploading on imgur ... as if there was some other option! -_- ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/S5vmlC2.png)
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 16/07/23 09:33 AM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings.  Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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She is Barbarian enough to me. :P As far as muscles are concerned, she has almost none. Her figure is completely ordinary for a woman of her age. And barbarian outfit doesn't make you a barbarian. Ask Karlach, she knows something about it 
Last edited by The Red Queen; 16/07/23 10:42 AM. Reason: Moderator: put image in spoiler tags
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/shrug She is Barbarian enough to me. :P
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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@Edvin Black, I am not sure where that image of Michelle is from, but it looks a bit like a candid paparazzo photo to me, and it makes me uncomfortable to have images of people that they might not have be happy to have shared widely shown unavoidably here, so I have put it in spoiler tags. If it's an official publicity still or something she has shared herself, then you can take it out of the tags if you like.
Though I still don't believe her RL looks have anything to do with her suitability to voice an animated barbarian.
And not that I have anything against the voice Karlach does have. While I agree with others in preferring the more scarred face, I think she can probably sound tough enough when she needs to, but when I got to see her on the 7th I was unexpectedly quite won over by the contrast between her rage and toughness and a sort of innocence and sweetness that you'd not necessarily expect of someone with her back story. We haven't seen a lot yet and I'll reserve judgement, but I think it has the potential to make for a more interesting barbarian character than one that just leans into the stereotype.
Last edited by The Red Queen; 16/07/23 10:52 AM.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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Though I still don't believe her RL looks have anything to do with her suitability to voice an animated barbarian. Actually, it's the other way around. Larian should have chosen the voice actor based on what voice would best suit the barbarian warrior and the barbarian warrior's body should reflect the fact that she is a barbarian warrior. While I agree with others in preferring the more scarred face, I think she can probably sound tough enough when she needs to, but when I got to see her on the 7th I was unexpectedly quite won over by the contrast between her rage and toughness and a sort of innocence and sweetness that you'd not necessarily expect of someone with her back story. I was also very (unpleasantly) surprised by how Karlach behaves and how she sounds. I guess the problem has always been there, but it wasn't until the last PFH that it fully showed me its severity. We haven't seen a lot yet and I'll reserve judgement, but I think it has the potential to make for a more interesting barbarian character than one that just leans into the stereotype. I think quite the opposite. All romances are always "tomboy", "sweet and innocent", "bi*ch (sometimes with a heart of gold)". I think it would be anti-stereotypical if we got a really tough woman once again. Do you know Cassandra Pentaghast ? Although I don't have a good opinion of Dragon Age Inquisition, I do have a high opinion of this character. You could tell right from her voice that she was a tough woman. She was written like a tough woman, look like tough woman, acted like a tough woman and sounded like a tough woman. Honestly, I think this was the first time in RPG history that we were allowed to romance tough woman.
Last edited by Edvin Black; 16/07/23 11:22 AM.
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I too prefer her older look, more mature and scarred like the rest of her body - a body that also lacks some muscle, but I guess we can explain that with the thingy she has for a heart if we assume it gives her enough physical power? As for the voice... Though I still don't believe her RL looks have anything to do with her suitability to voice an animated barbarian. Actually, it's the other way around. Larian should have chosen the voice actor based on what voice would best suit the barbarian warrior and the barbarian warrior's body should reflect the fact that she is a barbarian warrior. While I agree with others in preferring the more scarred face, I think she can probably sound tough enough when she needs to, but when I got to see her on the 7th I was unexpectedly quite won over by the contrast between her rage and toughness and a sort of innocence and sweetness that you'd not necessarily expect of someone with her back story. I was also very (unpleasantly) surprised by how Karlach behaves and how she sounds. I guess the problem has always been there, but it wasn't until the last PFH that it fully showed me its severity. We haven't seen a lot yet and I'll reserve judgement, but I think it has the potential to make for a more interesting barbarian character than one that just leans into the stereotype. I think quite the opposite. All romances are always "tomboy", "sweet and innocent", "bi*ch (sometimes with a heart of gold)". I think it would be anti-stereotypical if we got a really tough woman once again. Do you know Cassandra Pentaghast ? Although I don't have a good opinion of Dragon Age Inquisition, I do have a high opinion of this character. You could tell right from her voice that she was a tough woman. She was written like a tough woman, look like tough woman, acted like a tough woman and sounded like a tough woman. Honestly, I think this was the first time in RPG history that we were allowed to romance tough woman. See, this is where opinion comes into place because there was nothing in Cassandra's voice that sounds "tough" for me. Is it the "ugh"'s she throws? The accent? She sounded like a normal person to me. Annoying, but normal. What would you like Karlach to sound like? A barely literate caveman? That is what you see are a barbarian voice? Voice is not something that changes as we grow in muscle, unless you include hormones like testosterone which actually does lower your timbre over time. Also if you wanted something more atypical... Karlach is just it. A barbarian, but a nice one. Prone to violence, but not cruelty. Being a fighter does not make her a "tomboy". Karlach is feminine (perhaps too much so?) and still could kick your ass, which is great
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I grant that it would have made sense for her to have used the buff body model that's been introduced rather than the standard one, but in terms of the way she acts, I rather like it because she's not a barbarian in terms of culture or or ideology, she's a barbarian because she gets really angry and can tap into that anger. It's rare to see a barbarian character that's not just a barbarian from a tribe and all that. So on that front I do actually applaud Larian's approach. She's a city girl and she sounds like a city girl. As for her romance scene we saw? Well even Cassandra liked poems and trashy romance novels. And her romance leaned into ideas of courtly love and those sorts of things. I see what we've been shown of Karlach's romance to just be a variation of that, but for a city girl rather than a highly religious noblewoman.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Why is femininity considered mutually exclusive with primal strength? Is that rooted in the essences of the concepts, or biases?
Remember the human (This is a forum for a video game):
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This entire thread is sexist - and given its the second thread where mostly male members of the forums are being excessively critical of a female characters appearance and voice I am surprised no one has caught on to the double standard.
I mean, you are welcome to show me the mega-thread criticizing a male origin characters appearance. I'll wait. I mean there IS cause - Astarion looks like a mop I owned once and Gale looks like a dollar store Burt Reynolds*.
It also seems more than a little pointless given that the character in question is already fully voice acted and I don't see why they think they are going to choose a new VA for Larian to re-cast the entire thing.
@Edwin, I want to invite you to consider that this is bordering on more than a little obsessive and a bit creepy.
@RedQueen, thank you for that. Imagine making hateful public comments about the LGBTQ+ community while your co-star Pedro Pascal has a trans sister? One of the reasons Pascal got cast in The Last of Us was that he has always been an advocate for the community. Also he is amazing.
*Kidding, I don't care how they look.
Blackheifer
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I grant that it would have made sense for her to have used the buff body model that's been introduced rather than the standard one, but in terms of the way she acts, I rather like it because she's not a barbarian in terms of culture or or ideology, she's a barbarian because she gets really angry and can tap into that anger. It's rare to see a barbarian character that's not just a barbarian from a tribe and all that. Ok, name one tough female barbarian or warrior we can have a romance with in any video game (who is not Cassandra Pentaghast). If it's so rare to see female barbarians who don't act like barbarians and don't look like barbarians, surely there must be loads of women who are just stereotypical barbarians, righ? Personally, I can only think of one woman, and she doesn't even meet both conditions. (Amiri from pathfinder.) Why is femininity considered mutually exclusive with primal strength? Is that rooted in the essences of the concepts, or biases? And why is masculinity unacceptable for strong women?  Karlach can't be rough, wild and violent because she's a woman? (I don't think we should take the conversation that way or we'll get into trouble.)
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This entire thread is sexist - and given its the second thread where mostly male members of the forums are being excessively critical of a female characters appearance and voice I am surprised no one has caught on to the double standard. Actually, this thread is rather anti-sexist A lot of people are simply annoyed that Karlach is another doll with a melodious voice, pretty face and a bland personality. Considering her backstory, she could (and should) have been so much more than that.
Last edited by Edvin Black; 16/07/23 12:20 PM.
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This entire thread is sexist - and given its the second thread where mostly male members of the forums are being excessively critical of a female characters appearance and voice I am surprised no one has caught on to the double standard. Actually, this thread is rather anti-sexist A lot of people are simply annoyed that Karlach is another doll with a melodious voice, pretty face and a bland personality. Considering her backstory, she could (and should) have been so much more than that. Objectification and depersonalization are sexist. Also, can you show me the MEGA THREAD where people are objectifying male origin characters? Look, I don't expect you to stop doing it, I am just pointing it out.
Blackheifer
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I grant that it would have made sense for her to have used the buff body model that's been introduced rather than the standard one, but in terms of the way she acts, I rather like it because she's not a barbarian in terms of culture or or ideology, she's a barbarian because she gets really angry and can tap into that anger. It's rare to see a barbarian character that's not just a barbarian from a tribe and all that. Ok, name one tough female barbarian or warrior we can have a romance with in any video game (who is not Cassandra Pentaghast). If it's so rare to see female barbarians who don't act like barbarians and don't look like barbarians, surely there must be loads of women who are just stereotypical barbarians, righ? Personally, I can only think of one woman, and she doesn't even meet both conditions. (Amiri from pathfinder.) I'm not thinking of barbarian women specifically, just barbarian characters in general. In any sort of rpg if a character has the barbarian class, they're almost certainly a barbarian in terms of culture as well. Holga from the D&D movie, Amiri, Grog and Yasha from Critical Role, barbarians are consistently culturally typecast in a way that most classes aren't. Speaking about warrior women in specific though you're very right, they're sparse on the ground. I agree with you on that point, but I disagree that Karlach fails to qualify. I've barely seen much of her and she's already honestly stuck herself firmly as my favorite companion. Also actually, Lae'zel is a romanceable warrior. Sure she's skinny, but she's an alien from a race who are all skinny and lanky, males and females.
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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Jhe'stil Kith'rak
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In this discussion, what are our definitions for femininity and masculinity, and what are each definition’s relationship to the concepts of strength, ruggedness, and primal or imposing presence??
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old hand
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I really don't see what an actor's real appearance has to do with them providing a voiceover. Why do you think that's important? It wasn't just about the voice, it was about whether I would believe this person if she claimed to be barbarian warrior. Archer? I could believe that. Rogue? I do not have a problem with it. Barbarian? Definitely not. For the same reason, I don't believe that Karlach is a barbarian. Unsuitable face and inappropriate voice. But I guess I shouldn't be too hard on Larian. Karlach was not part of EA and her class and final appearance were only recently revealed. My guess is that if they had more time, they would have probably fixed her up, as well as Wyll. It's a shame because Karlach had potential. Wyll is a Tiefling now, though I haven't seen the new face. I also haven't heard much from Karlach. I'm more concerned about the scene people said sounded "fake". Some people have a voice you wouldn't match to their face, but that's no excuse for bad voice acting. I'd also like to bring up the point that the voice may not match on purpose: Karlach would have never chosen this path in life if it were up to her. Conveying this will have influenced the choice of voice actor.
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I grant that it would have made sense for her to have used the buff body model that's been introduced rather than the standard one, but in terms of the way she acts, I rather like it because she's not a barbarian in terms of culture or or ideology, she's a barbarian because she gets really angry and can tap into that anger. It's rare to see a barbarian character that's not just a barbarian from a tribe and all that. Ok, name one tough female barbarian or warrior we can have a romance with in any video game (who is not Cassandra Pentaghast). Julia Calida from Expeditions: Rome Jack from Mass Effect. And no, don't tell me biotics are "mages". Akavi Spaar from SWtOR. Those are three from the top of my head, I'm sure there is more. If we include mods (which I assume is not your point) there is a lot more. A lot of people are simply annoyed that Karlach is another doll with a melodious voice, pretty face and a bland personality.
Considering her backstory, she could (and should) have been so much more than that. No, only you have a problem with her voice and personality. Other people here think she's cool and just think her face should match her body.
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old hand
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I grant that it would have made sense for her to have used the buff body model that's been introduced rather than the standard one, but in terms of the way she acts, I rather like it because she's not a barbarian in terms of culture or or ideology, she's a barbarian because she gets really angry and can tap into that anger. It's rare to see a barbarian character that's not just a barbarian from a tribe and all that. Ok, name one tough female barbarian or warrior we can have a romance with in any video game (who is not Cassandra Pentaghast). Julia Calida from Expeditions: Rome Jack from Mass Effect. And no, don't tell me biotics are "mages". Akavi Spaar from SWtOR. Those are three from the top of my head, I'm sure there is more. If we include mods (which I assume is not your point) there is a lot more. A lot of people are simply annoyed that Karlach is another doll with a melodious voice, pretty face and a bland personality.
Considering her backstory, she could (and should) have been so much more than that. No, only you have a problem with her voice and personality. Other people here think she's cool and just think her face should match her body. Judging by what I learned from my mistake of scrolling the YouTube comment section... this is a divisive topic. But, yes. I also personally only find the scar distribution odd. The long, style heavy hair is a Choice. Larian wasn't going for someone who was a Barbarian first and character second. This woman is a fashionable veteran
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Julia Calida from Expeditions: Rome
Jack from Mass Effect. And no, don't tell me biotics are "mages".
Akavi Spaar from SWtOR. Julia Calida is archer and rogue, not mele fighter and definitely not a barbarian. Swtor is MMORPG not RPG. And skinny Jack is definitely no warrior. (BTW: Bionics are sorcerers, because theri strength comes from within, not from any learning and study.) No, only you have a problem with her voice and personality. Other people here think she's cool and just think her face should match her body. I won't comment that you haven't read or saw anything on youtube, but the fact that you didn't even bother to look at the previous pages of this thread is laughable. Larian wasn't going for someone who was a Barbarian first and character second. This woman is a fashionable veteran Well said
Last edited by Edvin Black; 16/07/23 05:20 PM.
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![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/C7KGbL0/5968a178122fa385cac20200-218515.jpg)
