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Originally Posted by Beechams
Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
If you are looking for something more challenging, then you should play the other difficulties.
Why? Just because you said so? Who are you to tell anyone how they should play their game?

... Is this a serious question?

My statement is the game is easier on easy mode. It is harder on hard mode.

It isn't that way because I said so. It is that way because that is just how it is. I'm not sure if you are familiar with difficulty settings in video games - but that is how they work. I said the game isn't being "Gatekept" because there is a difficulty mode that will let just about anyone pick it up and beat it.

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Hang on, hold your horses. What do we know *exactly?*

I doubt your caster level increases with fighter levels. So, a Jaheira won't benefit in Druid Casting by picking Fighter levels. I doubt Astarion gets 4D6 Sneak Damage if he never picks a second level in Rogue.

I think this casting spell level progression is more for those who want to go Wizard / Sorcerer, or Ranger / Druid or somesuch, yes? I *seriously* doubt I get new spell levels if I pick rogue for eleven levels. If not, I'm picking a new class every level; that would make absolutely no sense in the world, nor the nine hells.


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Originally Posted by neprostoman
Is Baldurs Gate climbing steam sales chart up to the top-2 positiom after they showed the bear stuff a good enough data?

What this has to do with the mechanical changes discussed in this thread?


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Originally Posted by Beechams
Originally Posted by neprostoman
What I actually do is criticize the systems for their flaws and thats it
What you call flaws are things which allow players to make choice you don't agree with. That is why you are accused of gatekeeping.


Originally Posted by Lake Plisko
If you are looking for something more challenging, then you should play the other difficulties.
Why? Just because you said so? Who are you to tell anyone how they should play their game?

I don't see my argument addressed in any way, thats why I don't have to say anything to you. If you address my argument instead of a strawman, then we can actually debate on the topic.

Last edited by neprostoman; 11/07/23 11:28 AM.
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I was quite young when I first played Baldur's Gate. Those rules were a lot less intuitive than D&D5. I still managed to figure out tacos THAC0s though (thank you, manual!) and managed to enjoy and get through the game just fine. It's funny to me that people these days (not referring to you here btw) probably wouldn't get through Act 1 before uninstalling and leaving a bad review because they at an older age than me can't manage to figure out a system easier than the previous games' smile


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Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Hang on, hold your horses. What do we know *exactly?*

I doubt your caster level increases with fighter levels. So, a Jaheira won't benefit in Druid Casting by picking Fighter levels. I doubt Astarion gets 4D6 Sneak Damage if he never picks a second level in Rogue.

I think this casting spell level progression is more for those who want to go Wizard / Sorcerer, or Ranger / Druid or somesuch, yes? I *seriously* doubt I get new spell levels if I pick rogue for eleven levels. If not, I'm picking a new class every level; that would make absolutely no sense in the world, nor the nine hells.
Jaheira is by default a druid/sorcerer and thus will benefit from it. Maxbe even doubly and tripley so if she does not fulfill the multiclass requirements and has changed ASI, but that is not sure.

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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by neprostoman
Is Baldurs Gate climbing steam sales chart up to the top-2 positiom after they showed the bear stuff a good enough data?

What this has to do with the mechanical changes discussed in this thread?

Sure. It means that this is much more in demand than the coherence of game systems. It means it very likely made and makes more money on with other stuff like romance etc. The whole fact that they focused on romance, identity, freedom, customization while showcasing gameplay with the highest level of incompetence in their own game - indicates what is the actual main selling point of the game, not its rules or game design.

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Originally Posted by Beechams
Eh? Don't use multi-classing. The alleged changes to multi-classing for your character and the ability to multi-class a companion are two separate issues. Either way they are still choices. You may not like the consequences of either choice but they are still choices. There will be players who are happy with both choices.


Originally Posted by Beechams
Why? Just because you said so? Who are you to tell anyone how they should play their game?

I love the hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by neprostoman
Sure. It means that this is much more in demand than the coherence of game systems.
Yeah, and that would be PRECISELY my point.

The commercial success of BG3 was in no way, shape or form hanging on the introduction of some puzzlingly bad mechanical changes.
Changes that the OVERWHEMLING majority of the casual audience won't ever know exist until 20 hours or so into the game. If Larian is lucky and they'll get invested enough to stick around, I mean.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Elessaria666
To spend a lot of money on a game, you have to make a game people will want to play. Not the 0.2% of people who play DnD. The 2 billion people who play video games. What about this is hard to understand?
More than anything?
The direct correlation between the features announced and this alleged explosion in popularity for the game.
In order to get the sales (to recoup outlay and make a profit) Larian have to appeal to the largest number of people and in order to do this everything has to be made as simple as possible (dumbed-down).

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Originally Posted by neprostoman
while showcasing gameplay with the highest level of incompetence in their own game

I find this to be the rule rather than the exception when watching devs stream their games. Not that I watch a lot, but I still struggle to think of any I've watched that played well.


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Originally Posted by Tuco
some puzzlingly bad mechanical changes.

In your opinion.


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I wonder what have they done to ASI/feats increases when you multiclass? Maybe the same thing has happened here, we eill probably get ASI/feat like every fourth level regardless how we multiclass.

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Originally Posted by Beechams
In order to get the sales (to recoup outlay and make a profit) Larian have to appeal to the largest number of people and in order to do this everything has to be made as simple as possible (dumbed-down).

Yeah, this is a platitude that gets repeated over and over for years at this point.
But despise the attempt to make it sound like a wise assessment, it doesn't actually answer the question: how many additional copies would you guess these changes will move, if you had to quantify?

Originally Posted by Sansang2
In your opinion.
Exactly.

Last edited by Tuco; 11/07/23 11:35 AM.

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Originally Posted by Potatoo
I wonder what have they done to ASI/feats increases when you multiclass? Maybe the same thing has happened here, we eill probably get ASI/feat like every fourth level regardless how we multiclass.

This is very likely, because otherwise it can actually be puzzling to the new players. I mean, if Larian could make good and engaging tutorials, this could be left untouched, but their tutorials are average at best and only scratch the surface of the game systems.

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Originally Posted by Ixal
Jaheira is by default a druid/sorcerer and thus will benefit from it. .

Why would she be a Druid Sorcerer? She's always been a Fighter Druid.

And... do we know that spell progression scales across muliple classes? I doubt you'd get level 6 Druid spells with one level Druid. I may be wrong, but I just cannot fathom it working that way.

Edit:

How I think they implemented is; you get one spellbook.
Gain one level of X - That's your spellbook, modified by your ability score
Gain one level of Y - That's still your spellbook but with more spells modified by your ability score and/or your ability score
Gain one level of X - That's your spellbook, added spells modified by your ability score and/or your ability score
Gain one level of Y - That's still your spellbook but with more spells modified by your ability score and/or your ability score

Last edited by rodeolifant; 11/07/23 11:47 AM.

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Originally Posted by rodeolifant
Originally Posted by Ixal
Jaheira is by default a druid/sorcerer and thus will benefit from it. .

Why would she be a Druid Sorcerer? She's always been a Fighter Druid.
Because Larian.

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Originally Posted by neprostoman
Originally Posted by Potatoo
I wonder what have they done to ASI/feats increases when you multiclass? Maybe the same thing has happened here, we eill probably get ASI/feat like every fourth level regardless how we multiclass.

This is very likely, because otherwise it can actually be puzzling to the new players. I mean, if Larian could make good and engaging tutorials, this could be left untouched, but their tutorials are average at best and only scratch the surface of the game systems.

Sven did say that they changed the rules regarding multiclass because they wanted to make it more appealing to new players who never played DnD or know anything about multiclass. I'm one of those people, so if a game makes it easy for me to understand then I welcome that.

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Well I read the 5e PHB and studied hours every day reading articles on internet just for that I know how to multiclass properly. All that was for nothing, LOL.

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Originally Posted by Potatoo
Well I read the 5e PHB and studied hours every day reading articles on internet just for that I know how to multiclass properly. All that was for nothing, LOL.
Wasting time on nerdy pnp rpg to play a videogame shouldn't be a thing

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