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So they removed the stat limitations from multi-classing.
That is huge!
Makes a lot of combinations easy. I don't think you quite understand how bad a Wizard with intelligence of 8 is, or a Warlock with charisma of 8, etc. etc. etc. Those limitations were there to protect players from their own stupidity...this change only offers them the rope to hang their characters with. Inappropriate multiclassing when you don't have a minimum stat requirement to make that multiclass level viable is a completely wasted level-up. What you say is right but both Eldritch knight and Arcane Trickster are int based, and none of them have an INT prerequisite before accessing to the subclass. I honestly don't see much of a difference between multiclassing into wizard at third, or picking the wizardry subclass at third. Only spells used to attack others needs stats, so maybe you can multiclass just to access buffs and utility spells? I guess. As far as I know the community (at least the Reddit community) always homebrewed multiclass prerequisites away and asked Wotc to remove them. Some of them don't even make sense, like, IIRC you need to have 13 STR and 13 DES to multiclass into fighter, while a full armor full fighter usually have no DES at all.
... because it's fun!
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It's seems to me that just putting a general warning about multiclassing being an "advanced option" Is all that's needed. If players choose to ignore the warning and find their multiclassed character is woefully underpowered then its on them, just as it is if they choose to ignore ability score recommendations when they create their character. There is only a limited amount of hand-holding that can be justified. Players have the right to make bad choices.
Last edited by FrostyFardragon; 11/07/23 07:34 AM.
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Once again we learn important and exiting things from external source, rather than Larian themselves. :-/ I wonder how hard it would be for them to make pined topuc labeled "Interviews" ... where they would put articles for us to read.  Anyway! So Pact of Blade gets hit modifier ... and extra attack on the spot? Interesting ... I presume that its damage will still be counted with Dex? And what about Thirsty Blade? Will our warlock get two extra attacks?
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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veteran
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Joined: Aug 2020
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It's seems to me that just putting a general warning about multiclassing being an "advanced option" Is all that's needed. If players choose to ignore the warning and find their multiclassed character is woefully underpowered then its on them, just as it is if they choose to ignore ability score recommendations when they create their character. There is only a limited amount of hand-holding that can be justified. Players have the right to make bad choices. I tend to agree. I honestly don't think this is truly a thing done in the name of accessibility though. Learning that Larian is putting in a bunch of items specifically to make multiclassing easier and saying as much publically makes me think that they just WANT people to make absurd multiclass combos. It would fit in with their philsophy to date of stupid, crazy things being the most fun and encouraging those sorts of things (see for another example, all the items to buff spell attacks but the various nerfs to support and controll spells).
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Joined: Oct 2020
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When I DM I don't exactly discourage players from making weird and wacky characters. We had an orc wizard/monk muticlass in the last campaign. Adventurers are inherently not "normal" people.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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When I DM I don't exactly discourage players from making weird and wacky characters. We had an orc wizard/monk muticlass in the last campaign. Adventurers are inherently not "normal" people. The only thing wacky about this build would be if the orc would be as powerful a wizard as pure wizards of the same level or stopped being an orc because his entire biology suddenly changed and the ASI moved around. Both things sadly or probably possible in BG3.
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addict
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Joined: Oct 2020
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When I DM I don't exactly discourage players from making weird and wacky characters. We had an orc wizard/monk muticlass in the last campaign. Adventurers are inherently not "normal" people. The only thing wacky about this build would be if the orc would be as powerful a wizard as pure wizards of the same level or stopped being an orc because his entire biology suddenly changed and the ASI moved around. Both things sadly or probably possible in BG3. We have been using floating ASIs in PnP for a couple of years now.
Last edited by FrostyFardragon; 11/07/23 09:27 AM.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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When I DM I don't exactly discourage players from making weird and wacky characters. We had an orc wizard/monk muticlass in the last campaign. Adventurers are inherently not "normal" people. The only thing wacky about this build would be if the orc would be as powerful a wizard as pure wizards of the same level or stopped being an orc because his entire biology suddenly changed and the ASI moved around. Both things sadly or probably possible in BG3. We have been using floating ASIs in PnP for a couple of years now. Your loss.
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enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2020
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Ok so IF it is true that the Pact of the Blade warlock is being reworked similarly to how the new player's handbook will be next year then it sounds like some of what Larian is doing may be aligning BG3 with the next generation of D&D which is what is arriving next year. Great, right? No, nonononononono, not at all...what I have managed to find out about the next generation of D&D can be summarized in one sentence: Wizards of the Coast are going burn D&D to the ground. Hold on to your 5e books like they are precious artifacts because when they go out of print D&D will be over. They are eliminating crits as a possibility for NPCs, a natural 20 now guarantees success...even if the difficulty of the task requires 30 and your modifiers trash and you normally couldn't succeed even with a nat20. I also fear that the insanely awful multiclassing rules that BG3 is reported to have might also be part of the many horrors that are reported to be in the next handbook. This is honestly just soul crushing. You can read a bit more about the upcoming horrors here. That was only in their first playtest. They have released multiple versions of the rules and are basing what changes they keep off of the feedback of the playtesters. They have had 6 versions of the Playtest and have released different versions of core rules in each. You can download these Playtests at D&D Beyond but require a free account.
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enthusiast
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Joined: Jun 2020
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Would it really be crazy for them to mix in some of the core hexblade features like Hex Warrior into Pact of the Blade? Wizards of the Coast is releasing an updated version of the Player's Handbook in 2024. In their most recent playtest the Pact of the Blade Warlock was overhauled. Many of the features of Hexblade were rolled right in to pact of the blade. Much like the special weapon attacks that were introduced in EA, the changes to Pact of the Blade are likely based off Wizard's of the Coast playtest material. Do you have a link? I would like to read about it. You need a free membership at D&D Beyond to download the Playtest materials. I've copied and pasted some of the salient features below. PACT WEAPON
Tracing arcane sigils in the air, you conjure a Simple or Martial melee weapon of your choice in your outstretched hand, or you create a bond with a magic weapon you touch. The weapon you conjure or touch must lack the Heavy property, and this fails if you touch a magic item that is attuned to someone else.
The weapon grants you the following benefits:
Eldritch Warrior When you attack with the weapon, you can use your spellcasting ability modifier for the attack and damage rolls, instead of using Strength or Dexterity. Proficiency. You have proficiency with the
weapon.
Returning Weapon If the weapon has the Thrown property, the weapon returns to your hand immediately after hitting or missing a target.
When you reach 5th level as a Warlock, you gain the Extra Attack feature forthe conjured or magic weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon, instead of once, when you take the Attack action on your turn.
Last edited by Alodar; 11/07/23 09:46 AM.
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addict
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Joined: Oct 2020
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When I DM I don't exactly discourage players from making weird and wacky characters. We had an orc wizard/monk muticlass in the last campaign. Adventurers are inherently not "normal" people. The only thing wacky about this build would be if the orc would be as powerful a wizard as pure wizards of the same level or stopped being an orc because his entire biology suddenly changed and the ASI moved around. Both things sadly or probably possible in BG3. We have been using floating ASIs in PnP for a couple of years now. Your loss. Never felt anything was lost. Same as we didn't feel any loss when the 17 STR cap for females was removed. New ideas are scary, until you try them.
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2009
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Never felt anything was lost. Same as we didn't feel any loss when the 17 STR cap for females was removed. New ideas are scary, until you try them. Cute. Just because you do not notice the loss of racial uniquness and the resulting sillyness as you games seem to be on a rather shallow level its a loss nontheless.
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Joined: Jul 2023
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Never felt anything was lost. Same as we didn't feel any loss when the 17 STR cap for females was removed. New ideas are scary, until you try them. Preach! Some people simply refuse to accept that not only TTRPGs grew vastly in the last 20 years, but also that not every game (or even just different editions of the same game) follows the same design goals.
... because it's fun!
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Volunteer Moderator
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Volunteer Moderator
Joined: Feb 2022
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Okay, just got back and started catching up on what's been going on for the past couple of hours and I'm feeling there's a fair bit of sniping at each other going on. That's possibly unfair and I may just have read a few unrepresentative posts, and I haven't had chance to catch up on the context anyway, but just a friendly reminder that we're all here because we care, and even if we disagree we can and should do it civilly and keep the discussion about the pros and cons of game features rather than what we think of each other. Selfishly, that would also really help me as I'm also keen to discuss some of the stuff that we've been discovering and I can't do that if I'm having to remind folk to play nicely 
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
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old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jul 2019
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I hope Sprite will be in as a familiar for pact of the chain.
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Joined: Sep 2017
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Once again we learn important and exiting things from external source, rather than Larian themselves. :-/ I wonder how hard it would be for them to make pined topuc labeled "Interviews" ... where they would put articles for us to read. Anyway! So Pact of Blade gets hit modifier ... and extra attack on the spot? Interesting ... I presume that its damage will still be counted with Dex? And what about Thirsty Blade? Will our warlock get two extra attacks? Nope, you use CHR for both damage and attack rolls.
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veteran
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Joined: Oct 2020
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Nope, you use CHR for both damage and attack rolls. So they give Pact of Blade two invocations for free? O_o Man, thats big.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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Joined: Mar 2021
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Nope, you use CHR for both damage and attack rolls. So they give Pact of Blade two invocations for free? O_o Man, thats big. No. Those were never invocations. They were the combined features of the hexblade, probably the most op 1 level dip in the game They've rolled that into the level 3 pact selection now, along the lines of WotC's new ideas. Also tbh Wyll needed to be a hexblade with the whole Blade of Frontiers, but he was clearly a Fiend patron warlock. Something needed to give.
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Joined: Oct 2020
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No. Those were never invocations. I would dare to say they were: http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/warlock:eldritch-invocationsLifedrinker
Source: Player's Handbook
Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature
When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Thirsting Blade
Source: Player's Handbook
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature
You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 11/07/23 04:55 PM.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
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Joined: Sep 2017
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No. Those were never invocations. I would dare to say they were: http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/warlock:eldritch-invocationsLifedrinker
Source: Player's Handbook
Prerequisite: 12th level, Pact of the Blade feature
When you hit a creature with your pact weapon, the creature takes extra necrotic damage equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Thirsting Blade
Source: Player's Handbook
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature
You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Lifedrinker was a way to add -even more- damage to your attack roll, came online at level 12 I believe, and is something you're likely confusing for Hexblade's immediate feature that lets you use CHR as your melee stat for rolls and damage. As for Thirsting Blade, yes that's likely being blended into Pact of the Blade, and imo it should since Pact of the Blade by default was really lackluster imo and more flavor than anything else, and if you're going to be a frontliner and going in on it, you should get the extra attack imo. This will likely be replaced by an invocation, or several, for the rest of Hexlblade's feature, that you'll still want like medium armor and shield prof. It's just being rebalanced so you can still have a typical patron and still go melee warlock at the cost of your pact choice and invocations, which is what hexblade already did.
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