Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General I think I'm giving up on Larian

It must suck to be that guy.


I can relate. It can't be too different from the mixture of boredom and contempt I feel every time I witness the usual suspects becoming gratuitously passive-aggressive toward anyone expressing anything less than unfiltered hype.


Well, I'm afraid you'll have to suck it up, then, since you aren't in the position to dictate how people should feel about things and you can't live up to your previous promises of ignoring me.

Yes, but there's a limit to the amount and quality of changes that can reasonably be made, particularly if the pitch to get people to join is "We're playing a game based on the D&D 5e ruleset (and you have to pay $60 to play)."

Some wiggling room for creativity? Fine
A bit of rule of cool? Fine
Making drastic changes to the system that invalidate entire builds, increase the power of already powerful builds, all under the guise of "well, I'm not banning any specific build, so you're free to play a suboptimal character if you want - others just might have all of your abilities and more"...I would not play with such a DM.

Also, there are already rules for multiclassing in 5e, which allow for the flexibility you're advocating for. With Point Buy, you can get at least a 13 in all stats - enabling you to multiclass into and out of any race! So Larian hasn't really added any flexibility - they've just massively increased the power of such builds.

That was no class act for sure...

Edit: Lets try and lower the degree of contempt to each other. The fact one has no complaints doesn't give moral high ground or something. Lets respect each other.

Personally, I think everyone should stop discussing the respec options and focus on the real problem here which is the alleged multiclassing changes. If we just complain about everything then NOTHING will be heard. Yes, respecing your entire character or the origin character whose class is tied to the narrative is ridiculous, though that's something we can live with and just ignore. I can't say that about this news of multiclassing.

For those that are saying the multiclassing stuff doesn't matter, sorry, you just don't know what you're talking about. Multiclassing MUST have restrictions and opportunity costs. This isn't my opinion, this is fact. By removing the downside of multiclassing, you make it the clear optimal choice, thus removing the choice of creating a single class. No one is going to pick suboptimal choices when building their character. By having opportunity costs in multiclassing, you are creating an actual choice--do I go this route and have this ability, or the other route so my PC can do this instead. One may not be better than the other, which is what makes it a tough choice. If there's a clear choice that's better than the other, that's what everyone is going to do and we'll all be playing the same characters!

It honestly makes no sense that Larian would do this because by doing so they are making the options that they worked so hard on for the past several years essentially obsolete. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned a good example of this. If I'm playing a fighter that can just multiclass into Wizard with no restrictions or sacrifices then what is the point of the Eldritch Knight? No one would ever pick that subclass because multiclassing would present the clearly superior option, thus rendering all of the work that Larian did on the Eldritch Knight obsolete before the game even launches.

This is a HUGE problem and this is coming from someone who does not whine about everything little thing that isn't perfect. I think Larian has done a great job on this game so far and I've been so excited to play it. I'm ok not getting everything I want, that's the reality of life, but this here is a real issue that could break the game and I'm so disheartened to hear about it. We need to be vocal about this. Accept the respec whether you support it or not. We have to pick out battles and I say the multiclassing is the battle to fight.

Venom laced piss is the tastiest kind I hear.

May I have your permission to use that phrase, because I think it's one of the best things I have ever heard? I also want to now offer guests "beer, wine or venom-laced piss" - if they choose that option I will give them some Maddog 2020 or Red Ripple.

Honestly, I agree with you btw. There seems to be a lot of speculative negativity and hyperbolic conclusions that occur on this forums.

"I heard X about the game so it's ruined forever"

"This exists in the game so it's ruined"

At this point it's just some form of self-flagellation - especially if you haven't played the actual game. It's not like Larian doesn't respond to player feedback and it's not like modders won't be releasing tons of changes that people can incorporate according to their needs.

It's like the only remedy is melodrama.

I was originally pretty disappointed Bg3 won't release while I'm on break.

With the nonsensical combat, and a system that treats worldbuilding along priorly implemented laws of physics as "suggestions"... it can wait. The comedic mechanics and serious undertones don't complement each other. If you want to be silly, commit to the bit. If I'm supposed to take this as a serious setting, I expect thought put into it.

This isn't innovation or a brave, iconoclastic move. It's dumbing down and unbalancing the already precarious. I'm not sure why Larian couldn't leave it at story mode and free resets. It could have been a great game. I don't trust Larian knows what they're doing anymore when it comes to combat. It was so, so easy to not mess it up.

That is why I was talking about arranging that with the people you are playing with - that's a "guys let's skip over the monster builds, they're boring" situation - I'm playing Shadow of Avernus at the moment as a player and we simply have NO Multiclassing because it was agreed upon that we don't like how 5th Ed handled that (the DM and 2 Players didn't like it, one is still complaining that he can't do it, I dont have a problem with the 5thed rules on that but wanted to play a singleclass Char. to begin with, and one is a total newbie who didn't know what we were talking about anyways)

As I said, it's just a matter of specifying how you want to play with your mates, and that is not that much to ask.
I totally understand that this changes seem rather unnecessary, i get it, I just think they are not that catastrophic given you play with some reasonable mates who can agree on stuff, especially if they are experienced D&D players.
And there's the single player option where you can do whatever you want basically
Maybe a "strictly 5th ed" Setting Option would be a solution?

I think respeccing companions from the ground up is great.
I think it would be good to race and gender lock them but other then that, go nuts.
Shadowheart really does NOT have to be a cleric to be a devoted servant of Shar, there are 2 more classes with a very clear religious focus: Paladin and Monk
Wyll being a warlock may totally be erased, because his first few levels are probably not warlock and upon being transplanted with the illithid fetus, he lost his levels. It would actually make sense for him not to be a warlock level-wise, but still having a signed contract.
Gale being a wizard makes a lot of sense but lets not forget that he is a wizard frustrated by his loss of power. He could totally be roleplayed as reaching out for another source of strength out of desperation.
Lae'zel and Astarion really aren't defined by their classes, they could be literally anything and it would still work.

Build tradeoffs are good.
There should be benefits and costs to a vertical build that goes all in on one class.
There should be benefits and costs to a horizontal build that goes in across multiple classes.

One form of build should not be privileged over the other. I think this is an important point, and more fundamental than the respeccing issues.

Well, since it's all optional and it's a single player game.

The only bad thing is removing requirements for multiclassing (is it actually confirmed?) - it directly breaks the rules of 5E and actually takes AWAY from the game, imo. And also that bit about bonus spell slots which I didn't really get.

Instead of removing restrictions for multiclassing (which are STAT requirements), wouldn't it be more logical to roll for stats? Just let us spend 1 hour rerolling to get the perfect stats - our character would feel much more special.

As for Companion re-spec - it's a good option, what if someone hates Astarion, but needs a Rogue in their party? Make Shadowheart into a Rogue! Or you are dead set on RPing a Rogue yourself, but you are also interested in a monk very much - make Laezel a monk!

Part of the fun of Icewind Dale games was tailoring your own party. I did the same thing in latest Pathfinder games - used mods to re-spec the companions into the most synergetic parties possible.

But it's just an option - don't use it if you don't want to and keep everything Vanilla.

Sure, I think everyone would agree with that last line. Unfortunately, it's not feasible at this point with less than a month until BG3 launches. Unless, I suppose, Larian has already worked on it and are saving it as a surprise...but that's fairly unlikely imo.

It seems like there will largely be one ruleset, with difficulty modes that change enemy numbers, stats, and tactics. Thus, the specifics of that ruleset are what matter. We don't get the option of "specifying how we want to play with our mates" because we'll be playing in a world with game mechanics, enemy & encounter design, and possible multiclassed companion characters are all given to us by Larian. And playing in an unbalanced world where you have to self regulate in order to not use easily-given-and-overpowered options...is not good design. I shouldn't have to design the game I'm playing. And no, the possibility of mods don't invalidate the need for the original game to be well designed.

If Larian are worried about players being disapointed about not having Fireball as multiclassed level 5 caster, the issue is information not game balance. Let players understand what they're in for before they commit. Besides, respec gives us a way out of unforseen build issues.

I love exploring Larian's worlds, but am not always a fan of their design choices. I don't really like classless RPGs, I quite like ressource management. I was extatic with the update to Hide and Reactions. I hope against hope the multiclass system doesn't turn into defacto classless.

Almost nobody cares about the minimum stat removal. The clownery lies in boosting multiclassing well over the boundary of the absurd. It's not needed for sales the way easy mode + resets are. Nor, even ignoreable and optional like a magic, appearance changing mirror.

No, it's at *best* going to clutter my game up forever. *Realistically*, even force people to use that playstyle, because Larian ramped up the combat difficulty with these builds in mind. There is exactly nothing optional about it. You cannot opt out

Someone on Reddit who speaks italian basically confirmed that this is NOT a mistranslation. They are making this that casual (but they do say that this fireball thing was said in a vague way, but it most likely means what it means otherwise I don't know if that part would even be said).

I hope what they meant is that you can use your highest unlocked spell slots for the upcast. That it means a (1) Sorcerer and 4(druid) could use a 3rd level spell slot to upcast a 1st level sorcerer spell. THIS is madness already but not as crazy as giving fireball to a level 1 sorcerer just because he is a level 4 druid.

I mean, you didn't really need to go that far to fact-check.

I happen to speak Italian as well and I read the full interview.
I wasn't going to "hearsay", despise what some moronic take may have suggested.

Ah okay. Just wanted to clarify. And it's not that far. Just been looking there and saw a comment about it. I am personally not playing D&D, but even I can tell those changes are... weird to say the least. It pretty much ensures that me who likes playing as sole class characters for roleplay will be screwed in terms of content. Because there apparently is also some powers origins characters can unlock and Dark Urge, but there was no mention of TAV. So pretty much if you are going to play a solo class TAV you are screwed and get the least content and power. I just hope the difficulty in this game is not centered around Larian assuming you will be multiclassing, I have enough frustration from Arx from DOS2.

Your first two sentences are how it already works in 5e RAW, if I'm not mistaken. So no changes to the system would be necessary.

My concern is that Larian specifically mentioned their desire for multiclassed characters to get "strong class abilities like Fireball" earlier, which implies they're making changes to spells known, not (just) spell slots...

Can we now expect multiclass enemies with these new OP abilities? Try ignoring that.

I absolutely fear so. I heard from people playing the early full access that the combat gets way harder. Now, that *is* hearsay, but it does not inspire confidence. Either we may need it to keep up, the enemies have it, or both.