Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General What is the Dark Uge ? Not an Origin Character. Not a new concept.

Since it was revealed on the Panel From Hell 8 (Release Showcase) last Friday, there has been a lot of discussion about the Dark Urge. And a lot of confusion and incorrectness. So I wanted to clarify a thing or two. Actually, exactly two.


The super-short version of this post is as follows.

• The Dark Urge is not an Origin Character.
• The Dark Urge is not a new concept.

The Dark Urge is not an Origin Character.

In party-based RPGs, like BG3, characters fall into 3 categories.

• NPC Non-Companions. (Examples : Nettie, Trader Arron.)
  
  
• NPC Companions. (Examples : Jaheira, Minsc.)
  
  
• Player Characters (PC).

And whether it's in an RPG or another video game, Player Characters can themselves be of at least 3 types.

• Pre-designed characters. Those are characters with a fixed Backstory, a fixed personality, and fixed game stats. (Examples : Lara Croft, Geralt.)
  
  
• Semi-Custom Characters. Those are characters with a fixed Backstory, customisable personality, and customisable game stats. (Example : Gorion's Ward.)
  
  
• Fully-Custom Characters. Those are characters with customisable Backstory, customisable personality, and customisable game stats. (Example : what we had so far in BG3's EA with the Custom Character.)

To my (finite, limited) knowledge, what Larian does with their concept of Origin Character is pretty rare, if not unique. I don't know about DOS1, but they used Origin Characters in DOS2 and are using them again in BG3.

Because the concept is quite niche, Larian figured it would be a good idea to explain, in their FAQ, what an Origin Character is. I wholeheartedly agree.


In short, an Origin Character is the superposition of a Pre-designed PC and an NPC Companion.

In BG3, there will be a roster of 6 Origin Characters. When creating your PC, you can choose one of them or create a Custom Character. Then, the 5-or-6 that you didn't choose as PC at character creation spawn in the world as NPC Companions.

One obvious remark, but that I feel needs saying nonetheless, is that Origin Characters are characters. (I said it was obvious.)


Now, the Dark Urge is just a Backstory tag, which is available exclusively to a Custom PC. You add it on your character sheet, amongst the other tags that will have been generated by your Custom Character choices (Race, Class, Deity, Place Of Origin, etc). And then, this tag opens up extra content unique to your character. Except that it's a bit of a super-charged tag if you prefer. While tags like your Race or Class typically unlock optional dialogue lines (or special interactions with some Side Quests, like Druid in the Kagha Quest), the Dark Urge Backstory tag will probably unlock a much more significant amount content. And, probably, some unique interactions with the Main Story.


Putting the concepts of Origin Character and the newly-introduced Dark Urge tag side by side, it's pretty obvious that the Dark Urge is not an Origin Character.

Indeed, if you don't select Dark Urge at character creation, you won't meet them as NPC Companion in the game world. So it's not an Origin Character.

Or, more efficiently, it's a Backstory tag, not a character, so it's not an Origin Character.



The Dark Urge is not a new concept.


This one is obvious too.


From a mechanical point of view :

The Dark Urge is a Custom Character with pre-designed Backstory, customisable personality and customisable game stats. It's a Semi-Custom Character ...

Like Gorion's Ward in BG1&2.


From a thematic and narrative point of view :

The Dark Urge is an amnesic with murderous urges. I think both trait have been used extensively in fiction, and the combination of the two must have occured a good couple of times.

Focusing specifically on the urges, the Dark Urge is a character who experiences bloody and murderous urges which have a mysterious origin, perhaps even some dreams featuring blood and murder ...

Like Gorion's Ward in BG1&2.


So ... yeah. We've seen this before. The Dark Urge is nothing new.

Now, this lack of novelty in the Dark Urge is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, given that this game is BG3, one could argue (if this was the topic of this post, and it isn't) that tying back to something we've already seen in BG1&2 is a good thing. But it's still not a new thing.

Certainly the DU isn't a companion and won't join the party if not selected as a player character, and so in that sense isn't like the other Origin Characters, and is far more customisable as we can choose their name, race, class, appearance, etc. Personally I don't think it follows that it's not an origin character, and that if Larian want to define an origin character in BG3 as any character we can play that has a predefined story that we can discover then that's okay by me, but I agree it's good to be aware that there are important differences between the Dark Urge and the origins like Astarion, Shadowheart, etc.

And I agree that the DU does seem to have more in common with characters like BG1's Charname, DA:O's origins, and even Shepard, than the other origins do. Based on what we've heard so far, the DU might be a less flexible character than they are, but certainly much more than the other BG3 origins and less than a custom Tav. And presumably introduced as a middle ground for just that reason, for those players who gave feedback that they wanted to create their own character yet still have the game tell a really strong story about them.

I have never seen anybody anywhere suggest that the conceit behind the Dark Urge is something that has never been done before. Lots of games do this.

Pretty much everything is derivative in some way. I think what is unique here is that we get to play an Avatar of a God - infused with the divine essence of the Lord of Murder - yet still also we have our own sense of self and our conscious of our decisions. How that will play out should be an interesting journey.

At least I have not seen this exact take on that.

I don't think we know enough to claim the Dark Urge isn't an origin character, although you are welcome to your opinion and to speculate. You seem to have strong feelings about this.

No one was claiming it was a wholly original concept.

Well, if Larian defined Origin Characters that way, then that would be ok by me too. But, both in their FAQ and the Community Update #21, they explicitly defined Origin Characters as characters that you can recruit as Companions, if you don't play as them.



What we know for certain is the definition of an Origin Character.

On top of that, as I remember it, Swen/someone at Larian explained during PFH 8 that the Dark Urge was exclusive to a Custom Player Character. If the player does not select Dark Urge at character creation, there is no Dark Urge in the campaign.

If it turns out, once the game release, that players who didn't play as Dark Urge get to encounter them, and can recruit them to their party, I'll happily update my opinion.

People here have absolutely raved about what an advanced idea it is, what a big deal it is, they haven't explicitly said it's never been done before, but they're saying things very close to that.

Well, are they saying that the idea of playing a custom character with a predefined backstory is novel (because that’s just basically every BioWare game), or that the part where the game sometimes puts you in a dissociative state is new? Because I have never seen the latter in any game. I also now realize I should have clarified which part of the idea I was referring to when I said “conceit.”
That was imprecise, but it’s just such a dang fun word to use I got myself over excited and flubbed it.

I will admit that BG3's Dark Urge does sound to me like a way to play a character like BG2's CHARNAME in the new game more than anything else. That's not a bad thing in my opinion as it helps tie the games together thematically. One thing I am hoping though, which Larian has not mentioned, is that like in BG2 there might be benefits you can gain by playing a good-aligned Dark Urge character, rather than just for being evil and killing everything you come across.

Actually it is confirmed that he is in the game, just you probably cannot recruit him. I got the sense that since he is behind all the serial killing going on you could either confront/defeat him or avoid him or escape or whatever.

Agreed. You can’t recruit Durge as a companion, but there was a claim (I think in one of the Fextralife vids?) that someone (a dev?) had said that we might encounter them later in the game. I don’t think we know any more than that, but I guess it makes sense if it’s true that they’d be an antagonist of some sort.

Well. I for one can't wait to see the Dark Urge in action.

Yes, it's reminiscent of the Bhaalspawn of old. And, this is... somehow a lack of creativity or something? Unoriginal? It's a sequel. It's supposed to play on those themes. That the Dead Three were involved we knew years ago, and now with the Urge there is something other Bhaal-ey around. I couldn't praise them more for it. If it were just 'Mind Flayers are coming for the city' as I thought from the very first trailer - now *that* would have found unimpressive.

And, sure, you got to play as a Bhaalsapawn... But how much of that did you really roleplay? I can count on one hand the instances where you have to pick 'I will kill you' vs 'I will not give into the taint'and then kill the badguy anyway.

This time around we get to see how that works. In gory, cruel, creepy action. I found it pretty cool how you'd miss out on a character in the first two minutes after the tutorial just by *fantasizing*.

Yup. I'm all good here. Urge on.

Upon reading this I was about to say "Oh, now that's clearly new information. First, where did we learn that ?" And before I could think much futher, I read


Ok, so it's not completely clear yet. But let's assume, for now, that it is.

In that case, the Dark Urge is now : either a Backstory that you can apply to your Custom Character, or fully authored character you can meet in the game but not recruit (i.e. an non-Companion NPC).


But it's still not a Companion. Which means that, by Larian's definition of Origin Character, it's still not an Origin Character.


Anyway, now I'm more interested in the Dark Urge, since I will possibly get to meet them in the game. In which case, I presume it will be a male White Dragonborn, in terms of identity/visual.

What if its random every playthrough? Could be a red-eyed halfling.

The source is this tweet, and the person answering seems to be a writer at Larian:

https://twitter.com/szspagna/status/1679492677543264256

To be quite honest, I'm quite baffled that someone should go to all the time and effort to produce a gotcha that really wasn't necessary.

Whether or not some people have been overly happy about this, I've also seen many people quite rightly point out it's not far from Dragon Age Origins. It's not a million miles from Cyberpunk either. I mean were people really going around claiming the wheel had been re-invented here?

I linked to a good video on the origin system before. The guy broke it down well. The origin system is pre determined characters with built in backstory that contributed to extra reactivity and narrative in the game world beyond the default player experience. He said the pros were generally when you played as one, the cons when they became companions, because you either felt content was missing or that the companions became overly mysterious, interesting and tied to the story in a way the default experience wasn't. It's a common complaint on here about them.

I mean if you're sinking to rules lawyering a promo quote from a community update to be a core of your argument, I think you might be taking it a bit too far. Most people have taken it as a new way of doing the origins, not a grand innovation in crpgs.

It really should go without saying though, the default 'bhaalspawn' experience would be the Tav one. The Dark Urge would be like if someone wrote a mod that added more to your character. Furthermore it is clearly more than backstory, because as well the tadpole story, picking this option will clearly add new elements going forward, likely elements in Baldur's Gate city itself which I can't help feel will also be a factor in the origin given the web series thing.

Just to be clear. Tav= backstory

Dark Urge= Backstory, with extra bits of narrative, character and reactivity

Twitter requiring I make an account to see context. What is it other than the question???

To be honest I don't really agree with the assessment that Dark Urge is not an origin character; it is.

I don't really give any credence to what Larian define a 'Origin Character' as - their ability to define things accurately and then be consistent about that is sketchy to poor and extremely unreliable at best. What they say doesn't matter - what matters is what is actually the case.

What is actually the case is that Dark Urge is an Origin Character with a few minor differences to the other Origin characters - namely, they aren't immediately available for recruitment if you don't play as them, and you can customise their appearance and class details. That's it. To say that Dark Urge is just a tag is a hair split - because if you can say that - "It's just a tag that gets applied with your other tags, and opens up extra dialogues, story elements, interactions and so on" then you can apply that equally strongly to, say, Shadowheart: Shadowheart is 'just a tag' that opens up extra dialogues, scenes and content in exactly the same manner.

To back-quote the Larian Origin Character FAQ:

"[The Dark Urge is a] pre-designed character. You can select them during character creation to start your adventure in their shoes (not available during Early Access, but will be added at launch) [...]. The Dark Urge comes with personal backstory, quests and motivations, and has unique ways of interacting with the world."

Larian heard the masses saying that they didn't exactly want to play as someone else's pre-authored character, and weren't enthused for the origin system in a D&D game, and they answered by saying "Here! We heard you! Here's another Origin Character just for you! You can change how this one looks! That's what you wanted, right!?"

With the revelation that you're likely to encounter the Dark Urge later in the game if you don't play as them, this completely cements the fact that it's literally just another Origin Character - with a pre-defined 'default' personality and characterisation. Minor differences in their play conditions, but essentially the same in every way that matters.

==

The irony is that it's much closer to what a tied-in custom character could or should be, than the other Origins - closer, but in Larian's usual way, completely overblown beyond the player's ability to make themselves at home in the character... they clearly still do not actually understand what it is about playing your own character that people who desire that actually want.

I'm going to draw a parallel here; The Dark Urge, and the Shard Bearer thence Spirit Eater - there are a lot of surface level similarities here for what these two games seem to be doing, but there are key differences. Mask of the Betrayer does not invade your character to tell you how you feel or what you think; it only describes sensations and urges, and lets the player decide how they feel about them, with dialogue options to support this ability to define yourself... the narration we've seen for Dark Urge often seems to slip into traditional second-person story-teller mode, where it tells you what you're thinking, feeling and wanting; this is the antithesis of playing your own character, and it's something that Larian seem to have never been able to grasp.

The dark theme and overbearing presence of the soul eater was okay for Mask of the Betrayer, because it was built onto the existing backdrop of a wealth of story that you already built for yourself; it was the second game following on from a first; we don't have that here - our only option for a custom character that is tied to the story is this dark and terribly invasive thing, which looks at the moment as though our options are mainly 'revel in being a murder hobo' or 'resist each time and don't engage with any of the personalised content'.

If we had an 'Origin Character' who had some ties to the story that were subtle but essential - something that made the sure connection that we are here, and it must be us, for a present reason, that did not impinge further upon our own character, that would be great - that's more or less what a lot of folks would like; a game that ties our character to the story in an essential way, and gives us elements that can apply only to us, or focuses the call to adventure on us, but which does not try to tell us what we think, or how we feel about any of it - rather that gives us a chance, through dialogue and other interactions, to tell the game how we feel about things and what we think. Dark Urge, if it wasn't such a ridiculous, over-the-top Larian set piece of gore and bloodlust, could certainly have been that... but it seems clear from what we've seen so far that it's not.

I think the entire lot of the origin characters is that they come with a pre-defined 'point of view' and history- that is going to flavor your dialogue choices. In the case of the Dark Urge it just becomes more obvious and direct since you don't have any specific memories like Astarion, Gale or Karlach. Shadowheart is likely to have similar things happen since her memory has been erased and we have seen her have reactions to things that she doesn't quite understand.

Only a custom Tav character is really free of that. However, you will likely start to acquire tags once you start making big good/evil/neutral decisions.

A lot negativity to The Dark Urge seems to come from how over the top his execution is, and with how the character's actions at times will seemingly be out of the player's control, but to me that's part of what you're taking on by playing a character more explicitly defined characteristics.

The Dark Urge is exactly what a lot of us, myself included, asked for from Tav. A custom character more enmeshed into the narrative of the story. I don't know how well the Dark Urge will accomplish that, but as a proof of concept for more custom characters in the future I think it's encouraging. Maybe we'll see the standard D&D backgrounds get this treatment with more mundane outcomes.

Literally just "Yes!'" :P

Yeah, this encapsulates my fear about the Dark Urge - that Larian just doesn't "get it", and it still won't feel like your own character. To be fair, I think my criteria for where the line goes is kinda nebulous, and I probably couldn't precisely describe it in words if I tried. All I know is stuff like the origin characters / Mass Effect's Shepard = bad, Bhaalspawn / Dragon Age: Origins origins = good.