Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Suggestion - Larian, give us the option to go back to the old rules for Racial ASI and multiclassing

This is an unfortunately common bit of misinformation that just won't seem to die. They thought it surprising and amusing, having spent all that time developing weird and wonderful races and appearance options for a fantasy setting, that when they tried to see what options people were picking the average was just a bloke that wouldn't have looked out of place walking down the street in any majority-white place here on Earth. I thought it was kind of funny too, but I bet they wish they'd never made that joke now! Which isn't to say that they wouldn't be keen for folk to experiment with everything the game has to offer, but it seems a huge leap to think they'd sabotage humans to push that.

EDIT: On variant humans I think we need to wait to see what Larian have actually done with humans, now it looks as though we're not getting non-variant-humans instead, but that every race will have a +2 and +1 flexible bonus to ability scores. You can't do variant human with that setup, as I think they just get +1 to two abilities, just as you can't do normal PHB humans either. It remains to be seen what we actually do have. From looking at the screenshots from PFH, the human seems to have polearm proficiency in addition to their +2/+1, but it's not clear whether that might be configurable.

With the usual caveat that I had limited time and could easily have missed stuff, it did indeed look as though every race had flexible +2/+1 to abilities plus racial feats, so while it would be possible to replicate some PHB races with that setup as they have +2/+1 anyway, for others (like humans and half-elves) it might not be possible. I certainly didn't see an option to accomplish that, though I was making a halfling so didn't spend long looking.

Eagle-eyed PFH watchers have spotted that humans seem to have acquired a polearm proficiency to compensate for the fact they're losing effectively 3 ability points, though it's not clear if that's configurable. And it's not clear what if anything half-elves or other races are getting for losing points either.

I very much want more info on this too, and if it turns out it's not possible to replicate all PHB starting setups (as it currently seems) then I'm not at all sure I approve. I'll get over it, I'm sure, but like others would prefer it if this new approach were optional for every race, not just some.

Interesting. I had no idea, it really was only something I vaguely remember hearing or reading long ago, so in light of what you wrote I take it back.

I'd just add to this that the Tasha ruling states: "The variant human presented in the Player’s Handbook is the default example of the human race while using this house rule." So getting VH with their usual +1/+1 would supposedly fit with the +2/+1 to anything ruling.

We don't specifically need "Variant Human," and/or multiple human options. The important thing is that Humans have abilities that put them roughly equal in power with other races.

Proficiency in polearms is certainly not comparable to all the cool features that Dwarves, Dragonborn, Elves, etc get. As others have mentioned it isn't useful for most classes as they wouldn't use polearms, and other classes that would use polearms...already get proficiency!!

I just want my +1 to everything back ...
It shouldnt be that hard!

*sigh*

So they did it. And they didn't implement it as an option - it looks like the floating ability score is now the default. Now why would you play a half elf instead of an elf? The obvious answer is roleplay but in game mechanics it really means you have lesser versions of elven traits. Before half elves were both beautiful *and* skilled - now you can see in the dark but not quite as far. how. very. interesting.

The *only* argument for this rule that holds water is an attempt to avoid racist stereotypes. No other explanation satisfies. "species are defined by their unique feats" might apply to Pathfinder but 5e moved away from the 3.5 feat based system; if you are believe that the species differ by way of their access to feats you have created a system that is inferior to pathfinder. "we're implementing PF2 rules - we're just doing it badly"

And it does damage to the setting

"halflings are still quick and nimble" except they aren't - because that quickness was represented in the form of ability score bonuses. Now they are just short humans who are missing their 3.5 / pathfinder feats.

Indeed every species is a human with some cosmetic differences - except actual humans which are mechanically disadvantaged.

But, to be honest, I blame WoTC not Larian - they are anxious to move the game to 6e. While I support their intentions and some of their changes - like replacing the problematic word 'race' with species - but I think they are going about this the wrong way.

At this point I'm hoping that someone will design a setting as rich and compelling as Faerun because WotC keeps screwing up.

*double sigh*

To me, pole arm proficiency, light armor proficiency and 20 extra pounds of carry weight is conclusive proof they don't want people playing humans.

Yeah... The design philosophy seems to be "remove features but don't replace them with anything. Leave it up to the DM and/or player create mechanics & base worldbuilding, or just use your imagination and pretend!"

I mean...

Honestly, out of all the news I've heard since the beginning of EA this change to the Tasha's system is the only one I've found hugely disappointing. Really wish Larian had chosen to leave it out and stick with race-based ASI's only.

Well said.


Yeaah, that will take off topic but I find Golarion a bit too edgelordy for my tastes. It is rich and detailed but lacks some of the things I like about Faerun. If real life me were transported to Golorian my first thought would be "how do I get out here before a demon steals my soul". In I were transported to Faerun I would want to see if I could get to the silver marches to see the unicorns. There's a certain playfulness and childlike innocence that went into building Faerun that I value.

+1 opted into EA ~2years ago thinking we were getting a faithful adaption of d&d 5e - what sweet summer child thoughts

I don't understand how it works for mountain dwarfs, Humans, or half elves. Those classes just get nerfed ? Like what makes me ever play a mountain dwarf now? What makes up for my 25 feet of movement if not two +2s? Unless mountain dwarfs get dwarven toughness too, but then they are just hill dwarves and u can just call them dwarfs and lose the sub races. Humans and half elves also feel majority nerfed if everyone getting extra skill points. I don't mind the idea going with the Tasha's system but I need something extra for those 3 races to make them cool. It just seems better to have the Tasha's system be optional and leave the original system as the default.

I would love to be able to choose to adhere to the current paradigm in EA of differing ability scores for races, multiclassing restrictions, no wacky spell progression, and even no respec as a setting before embarking on my campaign. You can leave the changes under another setting or even provide a checklist mix and match for those that maybe want respec but not the other stuff? As confusing as it sounds, sometimes less is more and it will contribute to additional playthroughs for those of us intending to get through the game more than one time by wanting to experiment with different class combinations, builds, and racial choices. As it stands, leaving virtually unlimited choice combined with seemingly endless respec only will lessen the desire for subsequent playthroughs due to having the ability of pretty much changing everything in one go.

The weird part is how they snuck both the stat changes and multiclass changes without any announcement. I think its wizards making the change and the next edition of D&D will be this. Water down D&D quick??!!? maybe we can make another $30. Thanks Wizards.

As RQ stated right below you as well, that "They" Larian put so my effort into the other races, and yet the one thing that made those races so unique IMO other than looks is and were their racial ability stats. Meh writing and thinking are not my strong suits

I could give or take the ability requirements for multiclassing (since in 5e all spontaneous casters no longer really need their relevant ability if they use spells without attacks or saves anyway, and it was weirdly arbitrary for how loose the system generally is), but as for the spell slot issue... I guess we'll either have to wait and see exactly what the heck was done there.

As for the rest - it feels a little baffling that after 3 years of EA and supposed player feedback gathering the very systems that the feedback would have been based on have been altered so strongly - supposedly based on the in-house tester feedback instead? I don't mean to smear the tester's job as it's hardly a valued one in the industry (wrongly so, as so many releases showcase recently), but when for so long the EA players have been asking for stricter rules and a faithful adaptation of the more baseline RAW a Tasha-like homebrew gets pulled out at the last moment and concessions are being made to ease the experience for newcomers and passers-by.

Attempts at appealing to the more general crowd have almost killed RPGs as a genre once already, hence the renaissance in the mid-10s, and seeing it done again would be quite unfortunate. Turn-of-the-millenium CRPGs wore their (varying, but still) complexity on their sleeve and had dedicated cult following because they targeted that specific niche, and BG3 is supposed to be an heir to one of such games. I have to agree with Tuco and his exhausted proclamation here, I am afraid.

Fully agree, but I have lost confidence in Larian actually reverting this decision or even provide a reasonable option. Seems they and/or WotC are hellbent in destroying any form of commitment and character identity in the name of 'choice'. I'll just wait for variant human mod and call it a day.

Regarding this issue, there should be an option to accommodate newcomers/casual gamers, NOT the other way arround lol ???
Whats next? A mana pool and no more rest needed to get your spells back? All weapons usable by everyone?

3 years of EA and you'd think these kinds of MAJOR changes would be available to test out. Ouch.
I LOVE restrictions (sensible restrictions) in my RPGs, this is really a big nail in the heart.


Not sure what Larian is smokin, but I want some.

I fully support that - a toggle between Early Access racial attribute bonuses and between new system of + 2 / + 1 for all races. That should be suitable for both players that use builds based on old racial attribute bonuses and players who want to play selected class as selected race without much disadvantage.

If they would insist on keeping the +2 / +1 system mandatory, they definitely need to give better compensation for nerfed races. Human's light armor and polearms proficiencies have little value for most martial classes (who get them already) and many casters (who don't use them). Half-Elves without +2 / +1 / +1 are just worse Elves - they have similar racial bonuses, but lack Perception and swords / bows proficiencies, so are just inferior and need some additional bonuses.

Reading community update #21 they still hasn't announced the changes to racial ASI. Larian if you're going to make changes like this atleast announce it.