Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Could BG3'S ambition kill the RPG as we know it

Dude, don’t bother. Kanisatha doesn’t like BG3, doesn’t want to like BG3, and has been hanging around here for 3 years making sure everybody knows it. It’s fine, just let it be.

I thought I was missing out on some prime RPG experience, and not some nostalgia-baked antique-ware from 2003. If the world's been hiding the good shit from me I deserve to know.

Regulars here will already be aware that I am not at all a fan of seeing the word "woke" thrown around casually given that in many of our countries it has come to have unavoidable political connotations that are derogatory to many, and these forums are emphatically not for political debate except insofar as it directly impacts the game and even then only if conducted in a positive, respectful way. I know "woke" also has other meanings, but in my view it has become devalued for constructive use in a public forum like this one that is intended for fun and friendly discussion between folks of all political persuasions, sexualities, genders, races, etc.

I strongly encourage everyone to say plainly what it is they object to without using what has become a divisive and controversial word to gesture at it, while leaving other folks to jump to their own conclusions about exactly what you are taking exception to. As long as, that is, what you want to say is within forum rules. And if it's not, then I'm afraid hiding behind the ambiguity of the word "woke" doesn't make it better.

Anyway, I've seen a couple of posts pop up in the past days making complaints or digs at "woke" content so thought it was time, again, to let folks who might not be aware know that this has become a word freighted with politics and therefore should not be used here without extreme care by anyone wanting to be considerate and respectful of other forum members, which should be all of us. And it's possibly best avoided completely in favour of being specific.

The Pathfinder games have amazing character customization, noting that I don't mean this in a superficial physical appearances way. I mean customization with respect to races, abilities, classes, and multiclassing. And they also offer the greatest range of options for customizing the game itself, specifically gameplay. And for me, nobody beats Obsidian when it comes to branching dialogue. And their games also offer excellent character customization. As for reactivity, Larian's reactivity is pretty much a thing only if you opt to play their origin characters. But a custom PC with less reactivity is far superior to an origin character with more reactivity. So when comparing reactivity in a Larian game to that in other games, I only consider the reactivity of custom PCs in Larian games. Origin character reactivity is irrelevant to me.

Okay FINE, I'll buy Wrath of the Righteous.

Don't get me wrong, I adore Obsydian games, but the dialog branching has always fallen a hair short for me. It seems like it's so good that when it misses, it t really misses. Compare to something like Mount and Blade where there's no expectation the dialog will be any good, so when it's bad, it's no big deal. But in either PoE, the moment that what seems like an obvious option is missing, it's really disappointing.

I suspect BG3 will be much like that, and I hope that they really improved dialog from EA, because what we have is good, but it often feels shallow.

Be aware the back half of the game makes the back half of Dos2 look full baked.

Don't go gold dragon either as it isn't ever close to being complete.

Its also so buggy it makes Bethesda games look well done

Good luck!

I got maybe half an hour or 45 minutes into Wrath of the Righteous but the voice acting quality was so terrible (and I already hated the game’s look) so I decided I’d be happier refunding it and getting my $20 back from Steam before the two hour window elapsed. Not saying that you definitely won’t enjoy it or something. Just beware, it is far from a polished experience. It is quite janky.

If I would say anything is janky in WOTR it's DEFINITELY not Voice acting.

Oh, you know what? I was thinking Kingmaker. Never mind. Disregard everything I said. Brain broke for a hot minute there.

Even there it's not that bad, but damn to say Voice acting in WOTR is bad... Just listen to this (okay I replace this video with this comparison in this post, previous one had too many spoilers)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...ice_actors_different_roles_in_kingmaker/

Owlcat games feel like jankier, lower quality dos2.

And i say this as someone who went from wotr to dos2

Okay, so we actually have something in agreement here. You agree with me that BG3's dialogue writing is not the awesome perfection many here are trying to make it out to be. And what you say about an obvious dialogue option being missing in some PoE dialogue is exactly something I would say about BG3 dialogue, except that the missing dialogue options are not random or arbitrary but rather typically very specifically the true-good dialogue options (as opposed to stupid-good dialogue options). And that, as someone who is interested only in playing a very strict good hero play-through, is super-frustrating to me.

DOS2 is more refined from graphical and gameplay standpoint, but I think the writing and characters and music are more of a strength of Pathfinders (especially WOTR). Also replayability. I prefer by far to replay WOTR than DOS2.

I truly hope you end up enjoying playing it.

But, FWIW, two things: One, do not set an expectation for yourself relative to BG3. That would be very unfair to WotR, as a game made with a dev team and budget a very tiny fraction of what Larian has for BG3. And two, I've spent over 800 hours on WotR and have never encountered any show-stopping bugs or even other major bugs. The bugs as they exsist are typically superficial, for example something in the description of an item not matching the actual stats of that item, exactly the kind of bug one could expect in a very large and complex game made by a very small team. And even those bugs are constantly being fixed, little by little, years after the release of the game.

Ehhh. I think writing is honestly one of wrath's biggest issues.

The companions don't really react to the player and all of then have endings that are melancholic at best. Really takes away from the urge to replay. Its ironic some people here are praising wrath while claiming bg3 is too dark. I have never felt as depressed completing a game going a full good run as I have with wrath.

The story is also the same no matter your path up untill the extreemly underbaked act 3.

Knowing you are just a the entire time and you were stupid for actually thinking the pc belonged to the paths they chose really sucks as well.

If you're holding out for a game where you can play a very strict good hero, it might be faster to write your own. I think the world has largely moved on, and I think every game you're likely to be offered will require trade-offs and gray area.

I think the opinion that almost all shops are catering to is "we like our heroes a little flawed because it's more relatable."

Honestly, given the amount of choice in BG3, this may be the closest you'll get to having that option. I know in EA I've had playthroughs that are very, very close to the very good strict hero you're describing.

What? Reactivity is in fact very good here. Certain characters will be able to change depending on your choices, the characters may leave, get broken or become better or just straight up die. You can end up with all the different kinds of world states depending on how you were as a certain Mythic Path, the entire secret ending. Also what you say about story being exactly the same is not true just by virtue of that you can use murder bugs in your storming of Drezen, yeah it's not totally different, but the diverging point is when you are choosing what Mythic Path you will be. Not to mention reactivity of different Gods at certain points. And you are, very much are this being you chose to be.

And I have never heard a complaint that BG3 is too dark. In fact I would say it's too light and disjointed in it's atmosphere where it tries to be serious at certain points, but it is undermined by overall atmosphere being too wacky while WOTR is able to strike a very good balance here where story is treated seriously (if you are not a Trickster, but even there you can be pretty damn scary) and the game reflects that. Being evil is also not just being a puppy kicking monster, but also a journey through a steady fall from grace where you are more and more addicted to power and you slowly turn the cause of the Crusade into something completely different. Kind of like Frostpunk where you start some more questionable paths with good intentions and they end up being horrific and monstrous.

And I feel like Larians try that too with how they talk about romances and Dark Urge, but I am questioning how seriously I can take it with how this game is designed overall.

While I know the majority of people on this forum disagree with Kanisatha, I think the idea that people just have different preferences encourages me to grant the benefit of the doubt and see what can be enjoyed on the other side of my own opinion.

It's in my play queue. I look forward to enjoying it and better understanding narrative-gameplay reactivity and customisability. I'd rather have a good time playing a new game and try to understand your position better than argue on a forum lol.