Originally Posted by Cahir
Originally Posted by kanisatha
You mentioned the whole "redemption" issue as well. I've been thinking a lot about that, and I think a huge part of my disconnect with others here is in the imprecise use of the language. It's the difference between whether someone is a sinner or a victim, which are two entirely separate things. The concept of redemption is associated with sinners, who are people who knowingly and willfully did sinful things but who have now had a change of heart and are seking redemption for their past sins. A victim, OTOH, is who is a person who was forced or manipulated into a certain way of life against their will or without their knowledge, and who are now seeking, NOT redemption (because that doesn't apply), but rather justice for their victimization. And so to clarify, I don't have much sympathy for sinners seeking redemption. But I do have complete sympathy for victims seeking justice.

So, let's say you have two characters. One is a young man that is crazy in love and finds out his love is cheating on him. In an act of jealousy, he kills his rival and then hides his body. He did it fully consciously. Then after a while the guilt consumes him and he wants to redeem what he did. He is a sinner. Then, let's say when have a slave that knows no life other than blood and death. He managed to escape, killing his oppressors and realising he does not know life other than violence, he groups a band of other misfits and starts to terrorize the area, doing exactly the same as the slavers that caught him. So, he is the victim.

Who do you think deserves redemption more?
Well, for one thing, I did not say being a sinner and a victim are mutually exclusive. One could potentially be both (and also obviously neither). In your example, the second person is both. I would feel strong sympathy for their victim past, but complete revulsion for their subsequent life of sin in the present, which in my view was a choice they made.