I mean now that we know, that Durge is indeed the serial killer there is the question, if a redemption arc is possible. I guess only if the Durge was indeed forced /controlled by another entity, Bhaal or whoever. In that case, it would be interesting to break free of that influence and take back your life and your free will. If Durge is a serial killer and psychopath by their own doing, then I don't know how that can be possible.
In a world with actual gods and magic, it seems like it should be possible to achieve redemption in the eyes of at least one of the gods.
In that interview, which I had previously seen myself, Swen not only confirms DU was a serial killer but also openly refers to DU as a psychopath, exactly as I described the character right from the beginning. He then asks whether, if such a person has amnesia, they are still that same person? The answer to that question is not at all complicated. It is indisputably 'yes.' And for me, it is very troubling that so many people seem to believe that playing a psychopath can be "interesting" and "fun." My two cents.
While I prefer playing good aligned characters, I played an evil killer in one of our Cthulhu groups and a Sabbath Tzimisce in our Vampire group. That was indeed interesting, because I couldn't rely on my moral code, I wouldn't call it fun though - I mean the groups are fun, but playing the evil guy wasn't my favorite thing. I don't like playing evil characters in video games, because more often than not it is the mwhahaha over the top evil.
I mean now that we know, that Durge is indeed the serial killer there is the question, if a redemption arc is possible. I guess only if the Durge was indeed forced /controlled by another entity, Bhaal or whoever. In that case, it would be interesting to break free of that influence and take back your life and your free will. If Durge is a serial killer and psychopath by their own doing, then I don't know how that can be possible. I mean a Hannibal Lecter doesn't stop killing. He could go in the Dexter category and only kill bad people, but he would still be a killer. I do however think from what we have seen and heard and read about Durge, that there is an outer influence, so breaking free and go back to being good should be possible. You should however be aware that you will start with quite a lot of baggage. I don't think, that wanting to play an evil character says something about a person in real life. SOmetimes, you just want to see another perspective. And as Queen mentioned: Revan, one of the most beloved protagonists, starts as an evil Sith with a memory wipe - similar to our Durge here. And my Revans always ended up the most lightsided girls.
I prefer my own Tav - at least for now. Maybe I try a Durge later on, but that depends on where that story goes.
Interesting response.
Don't know where people were getting that I was questioning people's morals IRL. I did no such thing, only asking why people would want to play such a character (in the game). And even that was a sincere question, not a dig at anyone. It does seem that many people here just can't wait to interpret any post I make as negatively as possible, just for the sake of it. Thanks for taking my post in the way it was intended, and responding accordingly.
''And for me, it is very troubling that so many people seem to believe that playing a psychopath can be "interesting" and "fun." (This is a statement not a question)
''Don't know where people were getting that I was questioning people's morals IRL. I did no such thing, only asking why people would want to play such a character (in the game)'' (Replay value and diversity within the story?)
''It does seem that many people here just can't wait to interpret any post I make as negatively as possible, just for the sake of it'' Don't know who you (or anyone) are, haven't been here since the beginning of EA
Don't know where people were getting that I was questioning people's morals IRL. I did no such thing, only asking why people would want to play such a character (in the game). And even that was a sincere question, not a dig at anyone. It does seem that many people here just can't wait to interpret any post I make as negatively as possible, just for the sake of it.
Well dude, maybe you're just not the best communicator, because saying:
Originally Posted by kanisatha
And for me, it is very troubling that so many people seem to believe that playing a psychopath can be "interesting" and "fun."
Definitely comes off as judgy and that you question the morals of those who find that playstyle fun. Surely if you worded your thoughts better you wouldn't get nearly as much flak in response.
Regarding the main topic, while I can see how some people find Tav as lacking the spice of the origin characters, it is also the only real blank slate option that gives you the opportunity to roleplay whoever you want. If I choose Wyll as an origin character, no matter which path I decide to take, I'm still playing Wyll's story, a character that's already established in the world as the guy who made a pact with a devil and is known as The Blade of Frontiers. And even if I choose The Dark Urge, while I can customize the race, class and appearance, I'm still playing a somewhat established character with a past (even if we don't remember it at the beginning) and existing relations with other characters (Sceleritas Fel). So I don't think it's a problem that Tav doesn't get any exclusive content like the rest of the cast does, because it gives us a lot more freedom to roleplay different characters.
In that interview, which I had previously seen myself, Swen not only confirms DU was a serial killer but also openly refers to DU as a psychopath, exactly as I described the character right from the beginning. He then asks whether, if such a person has amnesia, they are still that same person? The answer to that question is not at all complicated. It is indisputably 'yes.' And for me, it is very troubling that so many people seem to believe that playing a psychopath can be "interesting" and "fun." My two cents.
To each their own, I guess.
Generally speaking, I dislike one dimensional characters whether they be good or evil. When I play an evil character I enjoy the internal and external struggle going on within and outside this character. I usually know that they are both a victim and an executioner... and that is an interesting but dark area to explore as a player. And of course, redemption in one form or another is always an option in my book (though not a certain prospect and not always complete)
Back to the discussion, we do not know the nature of these urges but it could be very well that the Dark Urge character has been infused with that energy without their consent. That vile influence can heavily influence the actions of such a character.
I tend to agree that Durge is tav as it was intended originally, as all Larian games have had seriously messed up dark stuff in all origins. The ones that stuck out for me with dos was Fane. Beast and Red Prince. This is because Larian -they won't admit to it- like to RP more as evil characters then good, you can see it in their writing. No studio would add so many bombs, genocide, incest, kidnapping, backstabbing and flat out tyranny promotion. The above all work well in DoS as it's in the name, your original sin, you ARE evil. In dnd however, you can not get away such game design, as you all put it, the player is yours, that means you can not be evil by default. The easy solution is to create a MC that is evil, then scale back, then to write an entire story that's good, then pigeon hold a evil Mc in.
On the topic of tav not having content, that is going to be the case for all paths with the potential outlier of lawfully evil. I mentioned earlier how dark urge being the default evil path which squees toward chaotic Evil likely means that all other origins tav are built without evil paths, as it makes no sense development wise to create slightly evil paths as they do not feel meaningful. So my guess is the following;
Astarion: chaotic neutral Wyll: lawfully neutral Lazael: Lawfully, good Gale: chaotic, good Karlach: neutral,neutral Shadowheart: neutral good Tav: lawfully evil, lawfully neutral Dark urge: chaotic, evil.
The above makes sense as It fully covers the alignment chart
There's an assumption I see being made frequently in these discussions, that not giving in to the urge won't have meaningful content the way giving in will. I'm dubious that assumption is correct, and I'm looking forward to testing it.
I tend to agree that Durge is tav as it was intended originally, as all Larian games have had seriously messed up dark stuff in all origins. The ones that stuck out for me with dos was Fane. Beast and Red Prince. This is because Larian -they won't admit to it- like to RP more as evil characters then good, you can see it in their writing. No studio would add so many bombs, genocide, incest, kidnapping, backstabbing and flat out tyranny promotion. The above all work well in DoS as it's in the name, your original sin, you ARE evil. In dnd however, you can not get away such game design, as you all put it, the player is yours, that means you can not be evil by default. The easy solution is to create a MC that is evil, then scale back, then to write an entire story that's good, then pigeon hold a evil Mc in.
On the topic of tav not having content, that is going to be the case for all paths with the potential outlier of lawfully evil. I mentioned earlier how dark urge being the default evil path which squees toward chaotic Evil likely means that all other origins tav are built without evil paths, as it makes no sense development wise to create slightly evil paths as they do not feel meaningful. So my guess is the following;
Astarion: chaotic neutral Wyll: lawfully neutral Lazael: Lawfully, good Gale: chaotic, good Karlach: neutral,neutral Shadowheart: neutral good Tav: lawfully evil, lawfully neutral Dark urge: chaotic, evil.
The above makes sense as It fully covers the alignment chart
That makes no sense. As companions Astarion is clearly chaotic evil, Lae'zel is evil, Wyll and Gale are neutral, Karlach is good and Shadowheart maybe neutral. And my Tav is chaotic good, not lawful anything, because Tavs alignment are decided by their Players, same with Durge.
And if you play the non-Durge origins , you can again be anything you like alignment wise.
Last edited by fylimar; 15/07/2305:15 AM.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
There's an assumption I see being made frequently in these discussions, that not giving in to the urge won't have meaningful content the way giving in will. I'm dubious that assumption is correct, and I'm looking forward to testing it.
Yes you are quite correct. That is certainly my assumption, not only about DU but about the game across the board, including especially the choice of using/not using the tadpole powers. And, it is about content being both meaningful AND equivalent in rewards/outcomes.
And you are also correct, and it's something I have mentioned myself, that this is an empirical question for which we can wait just a few more weeks to get the answer. And FWIW, I would love to be proven wrong (truly wrong and not just those people in this forum looking to paint me as wrong at every turn) on this question.
The unique dialogue/narration of the Dark Urge reminds me a lot of the Malkavian route from Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. The occasional loss of control and random bouts of violence really help put us in the mindset of a sociopathic murderer. Really want to play as them. I will try and 'limit' my acts of violence, but for how long I wonder?
The unique dialogue/narration of the Dark Urge reminds me a lot of the Malkavian route from Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. The occasional loss of control and random bouts of violence really help put us in the mindset of a sociopathic murderer. Really want to play as them. I will try and 'limit' my acts of violence, but for how long I wonder?
The Malkavian wasn't violent though. Their whispers gave them insight.
"We are all stories in the end. Just make it a good one."
The unique dialogue/narration of the Dark Urge reminds me a lot of the Malkavian route from Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. The occasional loss of control and random bouts of violence really help put us in the mindset of a sociopathic murderer. Really want to play as them. I will try and 'limit' my acts of violence, but for how long I wonder?
The Malkavian wasn't violent though. Their whispers gave them insight.
And the Dark Urge has insight on how to murder people :P
On a serious note. There is nothing right now, confirming that playing as the Dark Urge you are forced to commit evil acts, or that you have no control. You probably have to face your past, and some troubling things or dilemmas/influences, but the whole point of such an origin, is the form of tragedy within, struggling against a fate that seems unavoidable, trying to get cured of the stench of murder or violence although it seems like it won't leave you and has left a permanent mark on you. And that road, the atoning/redeeming one, should have an equal weight and reward both role-playing wise, and mechanically(loot and powers) wise.
Struggling against such a fate is a very popular narrative, and i refuse to believe that TDU is just a way to play as a murderhobo. You were a serial killer and you remember nothing. What will you do now?
As for Tav, i honestly think that they should get something unique to them as well. Or else Tav is custom origin from DOS2 again. Unless that's what they meant. That the way they had to deal with that problem, is actually the Dark Urge, a Tav with a backstory you will encounter through the game.
Why else would you be able to customize everything about TDU, race/class/name/appearance?
And btw, you don't automatically kick the squirrel.
The unique dialogue/narration of the Dark Urge reminds me a lot of the Malkavian route from Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. The occasional loss of control and random bouts of violence really help put us in the mindset of a sociopathic murderer. Really want to play as them. I will try and 'limit' my acts of violence, but for how long I wonder?
The Malkavian wasn't violent though. Their whispers gave them insight.
And the Dark Urge has insight on how to murder people :P
On a serious note. There is nothing right now, confirming that playing as the Dark Urge you are forced to commit evil acts, or that you have no control. You probably have to face your past, and some troubling things or dilemmas/influences, but the whole point of such an origin, is the form of tragedy within, struggling against a fate that seems unavoidable, trying to get cured of the stench of murder or violence although it seems like it won't leave you and has left a permanent mark on you. And that road, the atoning/redeeming one, should have an equal weight and reward both role-playing wise, and mechanically(loot and powers) wise.
Struggling against such a fate is a very popular narrative, and i refuse to believe that TDU is just a way to play as a murderhobo. You were a serial killer and you remember nothing. What will you do now?
As for Tav, i honestly think that they should get something unique to them as well. Or else Tav is custom origin from DOS2 again. Unless that's what they meant. That the way they had to deal with that problem, is actually the Dark Urge, a Tav with a backstory you will encounter through the game.
Why else would you be able to customize everything about TDU, race/class/name/appearance?
And btw, you don't automatically kick the squirrel.
I wish I had your faith in Larian, but I still think they created it as a 'let people be super crazy evil' button. We'll see though, I would love to have a really complex character like that. One where you were a terrible person in a previous life/memory, but now you have the potential to step away from that. Here's hoping.
And you are also correct, and it's something I have mentioned myself, that this is an empirical question for which we can wait just a few more weeks to get the answer. And FWIW, I would love to be proven wrong (truly wrong and not just those people in this forum looking to paint me as wrong at every turn) on this question.
I have an honest question, then (I'm not trying to be provocative or antagonistic here, I really ain't). How would you assess, if you were indeed proven wrong or not, if you don't plan to play BG3 at all? I mean, you can of course base your assessment on others' opinions, but even if those will be opinions of people that usually share your point of view, there is always the risk, that their perception of the fully released game will be different from yours on this particular matter. You can also base your opinion on streamed playthroughs, but then again, if what you see does prove you wrong, you will spoil yourself the game story for no reason.
The best way to be proven wrong or not is to simply try the game yourself.
Actually would like some communication if Durge is as Fextra says it is… or like the community assumes it is.
As it was pointed out to me ... In the very video he was praising Durge for only adding things and be allways able to resist ... he shared short footage, where he killed a squirel and had litteraly no power over it.
So ... i would lean more towards community.
I still dont understand why cant we change Race for our hirelings. Lets us play Githyanki as racist as they trully are!
