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#862721 15/07/23 01:33 AM
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stranger
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Currently, there's an issue with the AI that makes stealth extremely overpowered, that being that the AI never searches for hidden players, which is extremely easily abused to the point you can solo any enemy with any class at level 1 with no gear by simply attacking, then using your bonus action to hide, and repeat. normally the enemy AI would continue to target your other party members and might see the stealthed character by chance, but if there's no other characters in the fight the AI will do literally nothing and skip their turn, even if you just stabbed them in the back with a dagger. As long as you're hidden and out of sight of all enemies, you can just keep stabbing people in the back over and over and over until they eventually die. Or even better, you can snipe them at range from outside their cone of vision, even if they're looking right at you. People saying you can just choose not to play that way are missing the point, it completely ruins any sort of solo stealth combat gameplay by making it braindead easy. Stealthily killing people outside of combat is actually really fun and engaging imo, you have to run away before enemies come and investigate and catch you, I remember really enjoying using ranged sneak attacks to pick off enemies in the first goblin camp with the windmill gnome, because you'd have to run away and hide from the NPCs who came to investigate, but that just doesn't happen when in combat. The enemies will instead just sit there politely waiting to be stabbed/shot, not even reacting to any damage they do take. My suggestion to fix this is that enemies that would otherwise do literally nothing on their turn should instead look for hidden characters similar to how they investigate out of combat stealth kills, such as going to or looking at where your last known location is and looking around to try and find the stealthed character. And enemies who were just damaged by a character now in stealth should also do the same, to prevent abusing the lack of search AI in team fights by say, stabbing an archer in the back repeatedly and then stealthing so they forget there's a rogue behind them. I think by making these simple changes it would really make stealth combat more engaging, especially for players who like playing solo stealth like me, though I know I'm probably in the minority on that. Either way, these changes would also make stealthing in team fights a bit more dyanamic too, as you could no longer trust your rogue to be able to just repeat the same stab -> hide -> end turn cycle in the enemy backline with no repercussions. If you disagree I'd love to see why, I'm all for leaving in fun broken things like barrelmancy in Dos2, but in this case I think you actually add a lot more to the game by patching this exploit.

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I agree, the current state of stealth is baffling, the NPCs in Skyrim at least took a little stroll before assuming it was the wind that drove an arrow through their stomach.

From what we see in the videos from the last PFH, it appears that hide is now an action instead of a bonus action, so that should help making stealth during combat a little less broken, unless you're a rogue I guess.
I hope Larian has some changes in store for us in the release version, or that they at least pay attention to this matter in future patches.

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90% of Larian casuals :
But its fuuuuuun.
rolleyes

Dare I say, stealth was better handled in DOS2. Still bad.

Last edited by Count Turnipsome; 15/07/23 06:04 AM.

It just reminded me of the bowl of goat's milk that old Winthrop used to put outside his door every evening for the dust demons. He said the dust demons could never resist goat's milk, and that they would always drink themselves into a stupor and then be too tired to enter his room..
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There's been talk that you can't use Hide within a creature's Threatened radius anymore, so you can't shimmy behind someone, hide, then move off without Disengage or get Advantage on attacks anymore unless you are a Rogue. With that and the change of Hide to full Action for non-rogues there is at least some hope of a better system at launch. With luck that's not the full extent of the changes...

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Originally Posted by Count Turnipsome
90% of Larian casuals :
But its fuuuuuun.
rolleyes

Dare I say, stealth was better handled in DOS2. Still bad.

Dos2 actually has the exact same problem and you can cheese encounters basically the exact same way. I noticed it when I tried to run a lone wolf stealth character.

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Originally Posted by Elessaria666
There's been talk that you can't use Hide within a creature's Threatened radius anymore, so you can't shimmy behind someone, hide, then move off without Disengage or get Advantage on attacks anymore unless you are a Rogue. With that and the change of Hide to full Action for non-rogues there is at least some hope of a better system at launch. With luck that's not the full extent of the changes...

That's a start, but rogues can still use a bow from outside of their cone of sight (bow range is longer than enemy sight range) and still cheese it just as easy.

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Originally Posted by Skye1402
That's a start, but rogues can still use a bow from outside of their cone of sight (bow range is longer than enemy sight range) and still cheese it just as easy.

I tried to do this with the build I and press got to play in Ghent last week and didn't manage it. Every time I attacked from out of range (even hidden), initiative was rolled and there was no new stealth roll so my character wasn't hidden after attacking.

I'm not saying it won't be cheese-able. I'm sure folk will manage! But it definitely looks as though it'll be much harder.

PS We have a megathread on stealth and ambush where I'd suggest this discussion is continued.

Last edited by The Red Queen; 15/07/23 08:30 AM.

"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"

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