Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Suggestion - Larian, give us the option to go back to the old rules for Racial ASI and multiclassing

I don't really see how any of these count as an insult, but sure.

They do have a point, though, because it's an already simplified-to-death system that doesn't need any more loose bits hanging (not that it isn't a theme with the game now, all things considered...). That WotC have decided on that doesn't really say much in favour of the mechanic because they've been known to make dumb decisions in the past (the entirety of 4e, for example) in the name of making the system more "friendly to newcomers".

You already barely need to think when creating a character because abilities are so streamlined (no skill points means no real need for Intelligence unless you are a caster, attack and damage bonuses fused together means you need either Strength or Dexterity but not really both, proficiency bonus ensuring that you never lag behind too much even if you purposefully gimp your character...), and allowing you to just slap whatever you need onto a set of racial specials instead of weighing whether those specials compensate for what you lose makes for plain boring character building.

It just seems like Larian doesn't really like the system in the first place (me neither, so that much I can at least understand) and takes the path of least resistance when it comes to balancing and implementing certain things. Or it's WotC's initiative, in which case they once again prove that history tends to loop in on itself.

+1

Just make it something you can toggle off or on.
Also, I wonder how the races with more than a +2/+1 are rebalanced in their system.
Half elves (+2/+1/+1) and shield dwarfes (+2/+2) actually become weaker in their system

I would like that too. Make it an option, so that people can decide, If they want PHB or Tashas ruleset.

Hi folks, some of the previous debate might now read a bit oddly as I've just merged two threads talking about this together.

+1. Larian please atleast make it an option to have the Racial Ability Bonus be like Players handbook. Like you did in early access basically. The change youve made concerning this is probably my biggest gripe with your game, but its a MAJOR one. Its also one of the few reasons why playing normal human is worth considering. Your also nerfing Dwarf and a couple of other races by doing what you have done. Not everything needs to be optimized for the class your selecting. Racial ability bonuses is one of the major things that sets races in D&D apart and makes them unique, keep it so please.

Also as a sidenote, please add an option for Paladins to select a deity, even if one doesnt get any dialogue choice for it.

+2 +1 to every race is just flat out stupid. It kills immersion, destroys what makes each race unique and special and uttery destroys any mechanical reason to play half-elf or human.

It's ironic in that the rules' very point is that "using imagination and pretending" was something that they were meant to formalize to an extent so players have a clue about what their characters can and can't do instead of it being straight up LARPing.

Which, with proficiency bonus introduced in 5e, was already on its way there, honestly, because they've made every character (who doesn't have any abilities < 8) have a basic idea about every skill there is even if they had no background in the related area... It's not like things like lockpicking or interpreting magic gestures require dedicated training or anything, which 3e represented by you having to commit at least one point to some skills in order to use them in the first place, and skills that weren't your class' forte required two points to increase and their max value was at half your nominal (level + 3).

I suppose that both sides can be understood - there are players who are used to or have builds based on normal racial attribute bonuses (EA version) and there are players who want to play selected race and selected class without imposing much disadvantage on themselves.

The solution and compromise is still the same - implement both normal racial attribute bonuses and +2 / +1 rules as toggles and let people pick the preferred option. That should be suitable for both kinds of players.

If they would decide to keep +2 / +1 mandatory, following races need additional compensations (from most to least, maybe there are others as well):
Humans - lose 3 attribute points for light armor / polearm proficiencies and 20 points of weight capacity, maybe something additional. All these bonuses don't matter much for most martial classes, who get them anyway and usually have high Strength already for carrying capacity, as well as many casters, who don't use them or have light armor proficiency already.
Dragonborn - even though they have breath weapon and resistance to one element, they often might be just inferior to Mephistopheles Tieflings, who get resistance to fire (most common and dangerous element), additional spells (both Burning Hands that are better / equal to breath weapon till level 11, though per long rest and additional spells on top of that) and also get darkvision.
Half-Elves - without +2 / +1 / +1 are just worse Elves with similar racial bonuses, but less skill and weapon proficiencies.
Maybe Shield Dwarves - they lose 1 attribute point as well, so might need compensation too, but at least at first sight don't have an obviously better race like some previous examples, since for example Githyanki with similar medium armor proficiency have additional spells, but lack poison resistance and darkvision.

I also want to +1 this sentiment and made an account here specifically to do so.

This whole Tasha's racial +2/+1 is supposed to be all about freedom of choice.

Well I want my freedom of choice to faithfully recreate my D&D 5e character that I play on the pen and paper TTRPG and I feel that is being taken from me after 3 years of playing EA.

It really does feel like a complete rug pull that it's being snuck in right before launch with zero official announcements thus far.

And I'm tired of being told by people that not being able to make my character the way I want is somehow giving me more options.

Please Larian, Racial Ability scores are already in the game, just give us a toggle.

Varient human while it will not be impliment based on what we hard would balance humans +1 +1 a feat and a skill the feat alone would make it worth it balancing it out even with loss of a stat point you could take a half feat as its termed to balance that out.

Half Elves and shield dwarves it should just be optional to keep the classic ability point spread. So they have a reason to be chosen over there counter parts in a class or 2. Getting additional weapon skills does nothing for a large number giving humans the same stats +1 skill same boat not worth even considering. Because they are just strictly not as good as other races without options in some classes like wise with giving half elves the same weapon feats. If that was correct on the charter builder.

3 races got hit. While they might want to play a specific class more so its about balance. The choice to leave half elves and shield dwarves doesnt hurt anything and a feat vs a couple of abilities isnt enough to deter another race it just gives Choice. +2 / +1 buffs other races in a way but those 3 races lose out on what they have that makes them a solid choice over another race in at least 1 class. Weapon and Armor Skills carry 0 Value to some classes as they already have all those weapon and armor skills.

@Volsalex Gith Also gain a movement advantage of 1.5 M Spells + additional movement makes the GIth Slightly better than shield dwarves in melee with changes additionally the weapon skills and armor basically is just a 100% loss vs other dwarves in some classes. While you can argue Extra HP and resistance in a class is better against casters than higher ac in mage on mage fight.

Weapon Skills have no Value to Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, Monks, Fighters
Medium Armor: Warlock, Wizard, Sorcerer
Light Armor : Wizard, Sorcerer
Any class that would want to use a pole arm is already skilled in it. The classes that would want armor skills there are 3. The other classes that it could help would not use the armor skills. Thats the weigh in.

@Volsalex again Resistance has value and depending on your build tiefling like you said may have fire resistance but there spell is also fire damage fire resistance is the most common resistance. In addition to synergy with vulnerable status when the wet condition is applied to lighting and cold damage.

It feels as though Larian has implemented in the main game a "booster" mod.
These kind of changes should only be available in MODS (or tied to difficulty or optionally), not with the main release of the game.
Or are we missing something? Would love to hear Larian discuss this issue.

I hope this is just for initial sales and reviews of the game to stay positive among casual gamers (making the game more in line to DOS2's freedom) and revert back in a future "D&D mode" patch.

I wish you all had pushed this hard for Larian to implement the ability to roll for stats way at the beginning of EA so we could have more than one method for stat generation.

with Tasha's option there are what 4 or 5 legit non-homebrew options for stats and larian only put in one, and honestly put in the one that is most fair and best from a role playing perspective.

Now you can play any race with any class regardless of 'synergy'

And I'll be honest, if the missing +1 from the dwarf and half-elf races is the reason you won't play them any more, then you really can't say that 'Role Play' had anything to do with your decision.

Is it balanced? No.. and neither is anything else in the game. This does the best at splitting the difference between powerful and fun.

For me the numbers themselves are an issue. But the biggest issue I have with it, is that they are removing part of what differentiates the races from each other. Its immersion breaking for me personally, basically all the races are now closer to just being different human skins.

Racial ability bonuses should always be fixed imo as a default, its part of the worldbuilding, and what grounds the races as different from each other. Now naturally, culture and history is more important.
This change smells bad of either Wotc involvement, or pressure from min maxers and whiners.

If they wanted to cater to min/maxers, and rpg players who need their hands held, then they should either have made a mixed system that caters to both camps, or added this new one as an optional one. Its quite close to Tashas Cauldron, and that system is optional...

In the end its a logical choice for Larian. They knew 100% probably a year before they would make this change making everyone mad.
Casual gamers and newcomers to D&D don't use mods and are not expected too.

BG3 is really the game that shows WHY this sort of RPG isn't made anymore. Gaming $$$ is now 90% takin over by hoards of casuals, sports and RPS gamers. But I think it is very idiotic on Larian's part (actually, I really think WOTC is culprint here) to think these people are a good audience for such an amazing RPG experience.

DOS2 worked with "everyone" because everything about it was dumb down in all its systems. you had freedom for everything. Spells recharge right away. Health come back right away. Classes and kits are meaningless. You could do everything and be anyone = the most boring RPG in existence because there is no role playing, everyone is the same.

I keep hammering this for two years: SENSIBLE restrictions brings in a more fun and immersive RPG experience.

Removing the race restrictions was a bad decision but we can only hope that in dialogs the races will be more prominent with multiple race specific options