Shove better stay a bonus action.
people whining about this are insane, Shove is a terrible waste of an action, if you get done in by a bonus action tis your own fault for not positioning correctly...
I don't know if you didn't play the EA or you simply didn't understand what was happening every time you did, but yours is probably the most insane take on the issue I read so far.
Shove, in the way Larian implemented it, alters the action economy entirely and gives to most combat scenarios a ridiculous vibe.
Shove used to be an opportunity cost you had to weight carefully ("I'm giving up my attack to do this. Is it worth it?") which made it entirely situational, EXACTLY AS IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE.
Larian's version on the other hand is more powerful AND it costs merely a bonus action, which means that even the AI will spam it every freaking time there's nothing better to do (which, turns out, seem to be freaking often).
So here we have:
- a bonus action that can instant-kill if you are anywhere in proximity of a pit or lava/water puddle
- a bonus action that makes trivially cheap to break magical sleep
- a bonus action that can help to disengage in melee range
- maybe more importantly, a bonus action that regardless of its effectiveness is insanely annoying to see abused so often, since it transforms the combat from "Here's a battle of sword and sorcery" to "Holy fuck, is this that Benny Hill sketch from my youth?".
ive been DMing a campaign for 5 years now.
I know how the action economy works.
And from my short stint with 5e, i know some things that dont work in it.
Shove is not "situational" it is "extremeley situational"
Unless the DM is playing the Monsters very stupidly or the players play it stupidly.
There is a grand total of no reasons when you should use shove.
In fact,in the 5 years of my ongoing campaign, shove has been used a grand total of zero times.
>abuseable
maybe.
but i take abuseable over terrible.
And for what its worth, martial characters are terrible in 5e anyway. Disegnage doesnt bother me. 3.5 had 5 foot step, 4e had shift. Its only 5e that doesnt do disengage.
I dont realy see the issue, all it does is making sure you have to worry about positioning more, which if you ask me is a good thing.
>muh sleep
yes, good.
Sleep spells are incredibly good CC and having an option to break them is fine by me. Also makes sense.
This is something my players used to do in my campaign anyway, because it works from a logical standpoint.
You might be on to something on the shove distance. thats the point im willing to concede.
But other than that, none of your posts convince me.
if you turn shove into a full action, it will not get used period. Simple as.
Oh yeah and on action economy:
I urge you to play an edition that isnt 5e or games that arent DnD to see it in action.
in DnD 4e any fighter can make a basic attack that also shoves at level 1. Suffice to say it does not break anything and it still leaves your minor action (4e equivalent of a bonus action) free to do something else like a Dragon breath. its considered one of the weaker fighter attacks.
