Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Mandatory minimap, quest markers... But why?

I have just bought the game on GOG, installed and tried it for the first time and I got pretty sad... Nothing has changed since Divinity: Original Sin ... A minimap in the corner that cannot be turned off (now even bigger than ever), untrackable quests, no icons filter on the map, mandatory quest markers that kill immersion ... The game has been in development for over 6 years and really nobody in Larian Studios or even gamers said "Wait. We have maps, markers, everything so ppl can enjoy the game, but what about HC gamers that want to be fully immersed in the game and all the quest markers, maps and icons are just ruining the experience for them?"?

I know that the game will be updated on the release day but since the game is based on Divinity: Original Sin, I really doubt any of these issues will ever be addressed.

Look, I have been playing games for about 30 years and nowadays I am personally looking for the most immersion-based games possible. After all those years of playing I really do not need any handholding, nothing like that. We were kids when played BG1 and BG2 for the first time and we made it without all those experience-crushing things I have already mentioned, so why all of a sudden we need them? No, we do not need them, it´s just Larian completely forgot old-school gamers.

Again, I have nothing against quest markers, minimaps or icons in games, if these games respect my needs and allow me to turn everything off permanently for good. Why developers only focus on making games that can be enjoyed even by those who might not like such games as much? Why developers forget players like me?

So this is basically all I wanted to say.

I play PoE to pass the time until BG3 releases.

You remind me a bit of the "I killed the Searing Exarch on HC SSF R in under 30 seconds with the wand I crafted using a single Alchemy Orb" crowd over there.

They make games for everyone and the fact is, absolute majority of Modern players are casuals who want to relax and enjoy gameplay as it is.

Maybe there will be an option to turn off handholding mechanics, maybe you'll have to wait for modders to do their divine work.

It is completely OK but the game provides players with difficulty options so as you can see the game is not being made only for casual players as HC players can play the game on the highest difficulty. Then it makes no sense for not having immersion-supporting elements I mentioned in the OP post.

The PoE series has amazing immsersion-supporting settings. Divinity:OS/BG3 can only dream of having such a care.

You're talking about a different PoE. I mean "Path of Exile". ;-)

Minimap has been criticised many times, and many of us wanted an ability to remove it. I hear Larian made it somehow useful now, so we will see if it brings anything of value, I felt no need for it during EA.

And now we can bring Elden Ring as counter example. Excessive UI is a shortcut to bypass good level/quest design.

That said, I didn’t necessarily feel BG3 has been suffering from that. Larian very much expects players to pay attention to the maps, and is happy to withhold information. UI tends to be heavy handed, but I don’t think it necessarily reveals more info than it should.

Elden Ring isn't even close to BG3 in multiple ways. Souls games barely have quests or NPCs so you don't have to remember much. Going from campfire to campfire is pretty much the only thing you need to progress during the entire game. Also Souls games became famous in large part because they are unwelcoming for casual players. I can't count the number of time someone had a hard time navigating the game and they only answer they got is "git gud".

I would gladly welcome an option to remove the minimap from my screen entirely.

I hardly ever use it or pay any attention to it in this game, plus on a personal level I frankly despise the concept of minimap in general (even and maybe ESPECIALLY when actually useful) and how it affects exploration in most modern games.

+1 - no minimap, and I raise you No Quest Log. Write it down on a game journal like we did in yea olden days.

I am really surprised that Larian have not moved a bit with their HUD design as HUDs in their games were always their biggest flaws. It is totally archaic when it comes to its adjustability. The Pillars of Eternity series, especially Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire is much further than Larian's games and that's sad as it came out 5 years ago. I mean, it's OK to not be the best in the world but it is NOT OK to see anyone making some things much better and despite that still stick to your old formulas. Even the most casual Ubisoft games have an option to turn off quest markers / untrack quests / turn off icons on the map or turn off the minimap.

That wasn’t a point. @Elphirein that mainstream audience requires handholding, and Elden Ring is the easiest and most recent example to bring up. I think Zelda games would work as that, but as I don’t own Nintendo platform I am not 100% sure.

Whenever it is an activity, landmark or quest is irrelevant really. You can design the game so it’s easy to navigate without UI, or you can make it easier on itself and use UI. I don’t know what’s hard about Elden Ring’s navigation. You see a thing, you walk towards it.

I am not sure how it relates to BG3. I don’t remember BG3 handholding being very invasive.

Turning off the mini map would be good.

Don’t agree about handholding though. It rarely tells you where you need to go or what you should be doing. As far as I’m aware the few things that get marked on the map is only when you’ve found that information from talking to someone or reading something. It’s not like some games that magically guide to exactly where you need to be all the time.

+10 - Really Elden Ring reminded Devs that there are gamers out there that find greater enjoyment by being allowed to explore the world and figure stuff out on their own. Like we did in the old days.

I recall there was the same backlash from salty devs who were so mad about the lack of UI handholding. Horizon would have been a much better game if there wasn't so much damn crap telling you where to go and what to do. I couldn't even play it.

Having said that I think Bg3 and Larian have reached a very fair middle ground. You have a quest log, but it's mostly vague about what to do specifically. There are not that many, or any map markers that I recall. Unless they changed something. I will have to see in the full game.

Honestly it's been a great few years for Video Games. It feels almost like a little revolution is occuring.

They exist so that players don't have to alt-tab and look up everything on youtube. Youtube can quickly become a vortex that keeps players from alt-tabing back to the game.

You did not understand the topic. I am not asking to remove them, but to make them optional. But you named the cancer of the modern gaming - players are just lazy. They do not want to explore, dont want to figure problems out on themselves, they just want to be led by markers, icons, etc. Again, nothing´s wrong about that, but why leaving an option to turn off the handholding stuff out for the players who do not want to be handheld?

Every modern game is created with casual players in mind, that´s completely fine, but old-school players wanting a challenge, immersion are ignored with no reason, as it is really not that difficult make handholding stuff optional.

I agree, no harm in having the option to toggle off the minimap and quest markers, and I don't think it would require an unreasonable amount of work from Larian to pull it off.

I do not consider Elden Ring a good example as it betrays what Dark Souls made so good. In Elden Ring you have a mandatory compass so that you see where your lost "souls" are, you do not have to remember it anymore, or there is the thing called the Light of Grace that shows you where to go in order to get to the main boss fight (the rays coming out the "bonfires"). Elden Ring uses the same system of HUD settings as Dark Souls, but in a game like Elden Ring with much more robust mechanics and more UI on the screen it is just not enough anymore. From Software has not realised that so far. I hope this issue will be fixed in Armored Core VI: Fires of Rubicon.

Don’t be ridiculous. I use my phone to look stuff up when playing like any normal person.

As for Elden Ring actually figuring everything out yourself seems to be for pretty hardcore fans. I think it’s actually half the point of Formsoft games to make a community of players sharing information. The chances of a player being able to complete some of the weirdo NPC stories just playing the game naturally is probably quite low.

I guess I'm in the minority here--I like a minimap, especially when it's locked to North. It helps keep me oriented in the game world. I would be fine with being able to hide things, but I want to have it, too.