Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback Dragonborn Dilema

First I want to compliment Larian on making the Dragonborn look absolutely amazing and stunning. Love it asthetically.

However sadly that is where the love stops.

This race needs to not be bound by the original Players Hand Book Dragonborn from 5e as its pre the ability to place stats anywhere rule change....but as well Wizards of the Coast themselves buffed their breath weapon.

Look at just how much the other races get. Dragonborn just get their resistance and breath weapon. That is anemic compared to the others like Tiefling of Elf or Gnome, etc. Not even comparing to Half-Elf or Half-Orc.

Problems (and how to solve them):
- No Darkvision despite Dragons having it. They had the same vision as Elves, Dwarves, etc in prior editions so why not now? You can't change D&D 5e but you all can change them in BG3 just like changes you made to Ranger and Monk.
- Breath Weapon has multiple issues.
--- 1 - Taking an action is too costly for a ho hum thing that will usually only effect 1 or 2 enemies. Either make it a bonus action or do what WoTC did and allow it to replace a weapon attack for those who have extra attack. As it stands just attacking with weapon or casting a spell or cantrip even will work out better.
--- 2 - One use per long rest is far too little. It needs multiple uses, preferably per short rest/combat as WoTC changed to multiple short rests themselves.
--- 3 - Its damage is too low even with the above changes. It should be d8's like WoTC changed it to there as well.



If simply the changes suggested were made to the breath weapon and give darkvision the race would at least be competitive with the bulk of the races. Right now its mechanically one of the 2 worst and its not even close. Which is very sad with how much effort was made to make them look fantastic.


Alternative things that could be done to make them feel better to play in light of other races:
- Give them skill proficiencies. ( ie - Intimidation, Persuasion, etc. )
- Give them innate casting that matches their Draconic Lineage choice. Akin to how Tiefling get.
- If Dragonborn racial feats are not in the game then you could give them a simple +1 to AC.

That said...genuinely just giving darkvision and making the breath weapon fixes would be plenty all by themselves.

Not every race needs darkvision. Scale the breath weapon by level and make it a bonus action, and we're golden.

The Fizban's Treasury of Dragons version of Dragonborn is still the most recent officially published version of Dragonborn, and it's the best one, with many quality of life changes and options for many different types of Dragonborn.

In fact, the onednd version of Dragonborn was worse than the Fizban's one, and it pissed people off so much they had to change it to be basically the Fizban's version in the next round.

USE FIZBAN'S

Personally, I think a lot of theses posts asking for buffs to Dragonborn are asking for too much. Getting resistance to elemental damage is already a huge boon.

The argument that dragonborn should have the same abilities as dragons falls flat to me. These are attempts to make dragonborn overpowered relative to other races.

For humanoids, I think only Underdark races (drow, duergar, deep gnomes) should have dark vision. It really doesn’t make sense for surface dwellers to have dark vision unless they are also nocturnal and normally are only awake during the night.

I think a +1 bonus to AC or well scaled breath weapon are good options. However, I think it would be unbalanced to give them both abilities.

I admit that it's weird that Dragonborn and Githyanki have the vertical cat-slit eyes that allow higher muscle control specifically so you can see in the dark, not to mention the high contrast iris that allows for more efficient light reflection. When I first started playing I saw that, and leaning on my knowledge of biology it made me think Githyanki had darkvision - but they don't.

I'm not saying they should give Dragonborn darkvision, they are super powerful already as a race-choice plus being the #1 fanboy super-popular race right now along with Tieflings. I remember when it was Drow back in the day - everybody wanted to play one.

Maybe they just need to change those eyes so its less inconsistent with biology.

This. I don't necessarily think Dragonborn need darkvision, but there are already good versions of Dragonborn--why aren't we using them?

Yeah, I think Darkvision is a really weird hill to die on. Something like a +1 to AC or a better breath weapon would be fine. I do have to admit that I could be biased because I had years if not decades of people wanting to play home-brewed dragon-based characters that were incredibly OP in previous editions. I sometimes wonder if it's the reaction to that which are coloring the limitation of dragonborn abilities.

Dragonborn should be scrapped and Lizardfolk should be added as a playable race instead.

As an old-school D&D player from decades ago I do feel more comfortable with lizardfolk as a PC race than dragonborn because they better fit my conception of a D&D world. But my conception of the game and its implied setting was formed over four decades ago in a very different cultural context. Today's players are more influenced by anime and manga than Conan or Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser. Their context is different and dragonborn work better in that context than lizardfolk. I don't have to be a fan of dragonborn to recognize that they were the right choice for this game.

My guys go frost or lightning drsgonborn and take shadowhear with you. Dragonborn don't need to be any stronger.

Dragonborn are the weakest PHB race in 5e. Their breath weapon scales really badly and that plus one resistance is basically all they get for racial abilities. Plus if we did use racial ASIs they'd only be good at being paladins or hexblade warlocks, because STR + CHA is an awkward combo few classes want. Plus their breath weapon scales off CON, an attribute they get no bonuses in. So they're actually not good at using their one offensive racial ability!

It's only widely played because it's exotic and most DnD players don't really care about optimizing race.

And Larian's Dragonborn is even weaker than the PHB one, as their breath weapon can be used even less frequently.

All that said, I am still willing to wait and see. There's supposed to be items that work based on race. I'd be shocked if there weren't Dragonborn-specific items that heavily boost the breath weapon into something terrifying.

Before getting into Dragonborn themselves. Did you even look at or consider the other races before making this comment? 1 resistance is a huge boon as if that's enough by itself? Tieflings get fire resistance, darkvision, and innate spell casting that has quality spells as options. Shield Dwarves get an entire extra stat point and poison resistance and advantage on poison saves. Gold dwarves get the same deal with poison but also +1 hp per level, and both dwarves get darkvision to boot.
So regardless of who you feel should and shouldn't have darkvision. Races that have them do and Elves and Dwarves had "low-light" vision in 3rd and 4th edition and you know what Dragonborn did too so why did they have it taken away?



So first to do with Dragonborn. The breath weapon as is, is not a boon but a pretty bowtie as its worse than doing literally anything else that you could possibly do in almost every situation.

Second. Dragonborn descended from dragons so it is a valid arguement. Its a matter of knowing lore. Plus in prior editions Dragonborn had the same vision as Elves and Dwarves. It was called low light vision and was not as good as dark vision that only monster races and underdark races had.

Third. They only have 2 types of vision in this game. So if they limited darkvision as you said then the TTRPG would be heavily imbalanced towards the very few races with darkvision considering the disadvantages from not having it are huge.

Tieflings have useful innate spell casts, fire resistance, and dark vision. So how would it be too much for the dragonborn to have 2 useful traits beyond their resistance exactly? If you don't value Darkvision as highly as +1 to AC then you don't understand the actual value of Darkvision.

People really need to consider the actual strength that some races bring before saying that asking for darkvision and a better breath weapon is asking for too much. OH and not every race would have Darkvision giving it to Dragonborn. Humans and Halflings still wouldn't.



It becomes very apparent who in these forums have played D&D long term, played short term, and not played at all. As varying degrees of understanding racial histories and lack there of understanding the value of proper racial balance is showing.

My guy its about how much weaker they are than any other race in the game. You can beat the game with all kinds of unoptimal or bad build things if you play on easy or even balanced. Doesn't mean its equal and doesn't need buffed. Especially since Tactician mode exists.

I'm glad at least one person that commented on this thread understands just how weak 5e Dragonborn are and that the Larian version is even weaker. Thankfully there is Dragonborn unleashed as a mod.

Chromatic Warding and, alternatively, Psionic mind + Gem Flight are pretty good. I understand why Psionic mind wouldn't be added, though. There's so many encounters it could influence, it's a lot of work.

http://dnd5e.wikidot.com/lineage:dragonborn#toc4

I'd just like to say that there are multiple ways to give a party member artificial dark vision in the game. It sucks when you have too many in the party, but 1 is manageable as soon as you need it. You'll eventually be able to support more. It'd like it much better if Larian build on the dragonborn's existing tankiness by adding chromatic warding.

(Like Blackheifer, I find the cat eye pupils confusing, though. Those are not eyes that have trouble seeing in low light).

If you compare Dragonborn with Wood Elves it's even more depressing.

Wood Elves get:

1) Some decent weapon proficiencies - a good mix of ranged and melee options for nearly every class.
2) Perception proficiency - always good to have on your main char.
3) Stealth proficiency - not useful for every class but hey it's free!
4) Darkvision - the single best racial trait there is.
5) Fey Ancestry - extra protection against some crowd control effects; always a great thing to have.
6) Fleet of Foot - extra movement speed; again not that useful for every class but it's free and HOLY HELL look at what else we've got!!



Meanwhile Dragonborn look mighty weak with only TWO racial traits. They could have easily given them a 3rd, and since Draconic Bloodline gains extra HP and extra Armor I too would have liked to see base Dragonborn gain those bonuses.

Dragonborn are a missed opportunity for one hella tanky species

I was sad to see there wasn’t anything to augment the breath weapon. Once per long reat just doesn’t feel good.

I understand it’s a racial and not a true spell, but it looks awesome and is fun to press. Would like to use it more often.

Agree completely on darkvision. Seems like a miss to me.

In the Fizban version they get 1 breath per proficency bonus before resting.