Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Illithid Powers!!

the gods are the worst part of forgotten realms, in my opinion.

none of it makes much sense. they're all these supposedly powerful beings that are about as smart as whoever happens to be writing them at the moment, which means that they're about as dumb as the average human sometimes. And their actions and powers and limitations and whatnot: it's all handwaving.

it's one of the problems you get when you have so many people involved in a creation over time. there are the occasional visionaries who bring gold to the table, and then there's everyone else, alas.

I think? But Jergal has always been a little weird.

I think Ao also makes the Gods worse because they're not really Gods who represent their portfolios and derive power from belief; they are more like Ao's middle-managers.

All D&D gods are a bit weird. Mystra died three times, and is technically dead but not really as she still rules over magic. Similar to the Raven Queen who also died but not really as the Shadar-kai still work for her and she can sometimes be seen in her castle almost like a ghost haunting the place, etc. There's a lot of really vague weirdness going on with D&D deities. None of them seem to ever really die for good...either their essence reforms over time or there's some shenanigans going on all the time. It's best to think of godhood in D&D as a one way road. Once you get it you won't lose it.

Except the dead three aren't gods anymore, they got demoted after they all died to quasi-deities. I'm guessing if they can build up a large enough group of worshipers they can reach full divinity again.

Lesser gods technically but really there isn't much difference to speak of. It's not like dying held them back much because here they are, back to their old shenanigans.

I liked the EA storytelling of the illithid powers growing. From what I seen so far--and hope it's wrong--is that you now, for some insane reason, decide to stick more and more tadpoles into your brain to chill. This pretty much killed any desire for me to explore the tadpole side of things. Because whomever thought it was a good idea story-wise, to put all this urgency in getting the tadpole out of our heads, even so much as throwing a bunch of people together that really have no interest in each other initially, just ruined it.

It was one thing to go, oh wow... the the tadpole isn't turning us. Oh wow, doing the psychic thing makes you stronger, and maybe the tadpole too since it's getting sated, let me explore this and see if at some point I might go, oh let me stop feeding it or get rid of it. But even after finding out that all the tadpoles are different, the expectation is still there that while you're not changing now, you might still and so you want to learn about it or get rid of it. But to make that jump to make the decision to put MORE into your head, just makes absolutely zero sense story-wise that we've learned thus far.

The only way I can see this not being stupid is if there was a story attached to why we're all of a sudden deciding it's a good idea to put more into our heads (and maybe there is, the Guardian might start talking to you about that earlier, like way earlier based on seeing the tree available super early). But even then, I will only even touch that if the story comes out and says something along the lines of "you insert this new tadpole into your head, as it burrows deeper into your brain the current occupant lashes out killing the new interloper and consumes it... you feel it grow stronger." I don't care if the idea is the more in your head, the more your brain is going dark and getting consumed. I'm not having multiples squirming about.

it's a wonder anyone in forgotten realms is still alive, what with all the crazy gods and monsters and endless bandits. Bhaalspawn battling in the streets, archwizards and epic artifacts.

The early access narrative of you using the tadpole in for speech checks and the dream lady and becoming marked as a True Soul is still in the game but that's not how you get powers from it anymore...which is a good thing imo because now you get flexibility in choice and can get powers that actually help you a lot more and might be more beneficial to your build or class.

It is all a speculation from my part but I would not call them underdogs. That death count could be actually due to dabbling in a very dark magic (aka a radiation-like side effect). I am left with the impression from one particular scene in the EA that they play a strong role in the whole Absolute thing and it is possible they might be pulling the strings. They are certainly being backed by another entity (which might try to double cross them) but they have definitely acquired enormous influence and power. The recovery of the nautiloid technology is one of the proofs for that.

From the Forgotten Realms wiki


The fact they are using those as an offensive weapon is disturbing indeed.

@Scales & Fangs

I'm just speculating too and I also like your take because my other option was exactly that, them trying to somehow modify tadpoles with magic provided from a 3rd party xD

Makes me wonder ...
Do you think this means only one member of our party will be able to unlock full potential?

I mean ... i kinda enjoyed torturing shadowheart by making her weak and subdue to tadpole dialogue options ...
This will likely become not possible huh?

The tadpole dialogue options will still be there in the final game. They will just be detached from the tadpole power upgrades. But you can still do the tadpole wisdom checks and still earn the True Soul branding and so on.

So we need the 'True Soul' Brand from Gut to use any 'Absolute' tagged equipment? Curious if some of the Legendary items (I think there are 9) require the Brand. Wonder if you can pay a cleric in the City of Baldur's Gate to remove it if it becomes a problem. People assuming we are with the Cult instead of a deep cover spy might be more difficult if we have the tattoo that most of the zealots and fanatics are marked with.

We've played ~17% of the total size of the game thus far and was spoiled that the tadpole system has changed. You can't speak with absolutes and go "omg, good players are getting shafted... waaaaah." You have absolutely no idea what's in place for good players. What content they might get access to, what sets of gear and weapons that may add extra abilities that could be better. Not to mention the whole premise that tadpoles = evil is wrong. Unless you completely lose control of your character and it goes on a murder spree without your consent, there is nothing keeping you from taking the tadpole powers and using them for good. On the contrary, it's usually a more compelling story when someone is tempted to power for good and falls off the wagon, or runs into the consequence of that dire decision than being like "power, power, powers get in MY head."

Bad consequence to the players does not equate EVIL. It just means bad consequences to the player. Just like good players can have bad consequences for being good.

There can't be. Since Larian said they rewrote how the dream "lover" is and it is now an actual in game NPC called the Guardian. So only people who got to play the 5 hours the day before the last panel of hell got to see anything on it.

One interesting thing though, that immediately hit me, was its name. The Guardian. Sven LOVED the ultima series, and specifically thought Ultima 7 was the best early RPG (7 was the best of the series). And there is an ultimate evil in that game, with near divine level powers called the Guardian. You eventually find out exactly who the Guardian is by the end of the series, and finally take care of him. But the similarities between the two are compelling. The Guardian in ultima would often speak to the avatar in his dreams, or seemingly out of nothingness at times to address the avatar directly.

Jergal relinquished his divine authority over death to Kelemvor, but he retained a diminished role and continued to serve as a steward of the dead and an observer of fate. He became a subordinate of Kelemvor, taking on the position of a demigod, and his portfolio shifted to encompass record-keeping, bureaucracy, and the inevitability of death.

Seems like Withers could actually be Jergal himself. I think he avoids the question when you asked him about the divine influence you feel around him.

I would be very pleased if the dark side will be tempted with more power - even as a 'good' player I think that is a very smart way of doing things and I absolutely don't mind if the good guys end up weaker. My only complaint about what we have seen in the EA is Larian's approach - 'You don't play the way we want you to, well then you get nothing' - because ignoring the Tadpole powers also meant you didn't get any cinematic, story, or anything. You never met the 'desire' (making their creation as pointless as it gets). The game wasn't reactive, it ignored so far a good aligned Tav as a bothersome choice Larian had to put in there because people demand it, but at the same time they don't want to put work into.

Yeah, this was my main issue with the whole thing, which I'm pretty sure I grumbled about on these forums back in the day. You miss so many important moments with your companions and a fair-sized slice of the plot, but nothing replaces that. I couldn't care less about special powers - I'd just like an equally rich story. I'm still unsure whether they've actually addressed this issue (partially yes, partially no, it sounds like?).

By the time I saw the desire mentioned on this forum I had the EA completed and completely forgot that I created one at the beginning
But I also missed out on a lot of dialog since I didn't rest enough... and ignoring the tadpole on my recent playthrough I once again didn't see anything from her... it feels a lot like I'm just there to experience my companions' rich background (but at the same time I don't have a good enough report with them to even see that :D) ... so yeah, as long as Tav get's at least some of the basic story even if they don't go for the tadpole's power and the slightly suspicious Guardian I'm fine with whatever the 'evil' playthrough gets when it comes to power.